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Old 05-24-2005, 06:04 PM
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Awfull grinding noise follow-up...

Hers an update to my yesterday's posting about a bad grinding noise on my 383 chevy. Since everybody suggested a possible source being a faulty starter I took it out today to see. The starter is an old Delco that was,I believe, OEM on that old block I have. It would start the engine perfectly with no hesitation neither grinding or other odd noise.But after some time idling around,testing my new motor and differential some awfull grinding noise came on...it could very well be from the starter altough not 100% sure.
I took out the starter today and saw some wear,looks like recent,right at the edge of the flywheel teeth and a bit of some fresh metal bits on top of the greasy film covering the inside of the starter cone makes me thinking of something like the starter gear trying to reengage while the motor is actually running.

As this grinding first appeared after the engine had already been running for a few minutes don't I have to discard a stuck solenoid?

The other odd possibility is since I had some wiring redone ,among wich the live wire from the switch going onto the S terminal, could it be that the solenoid receives some uncontrolled voltage even after the engine s'been running normal for a few minutes?

I have tested the starter directly from a battery and the solenoid kicks in normally and that gear spins as it should be and withdraw to its normal place once the current cut-off.

Now I have been told about sme "fork" inside the starter itself that once really worned-off can create a rubbing starter gear after start-up...but I don't know how to check this.

In short I am looking at two possibilities a defectice starter or wiring problems...wrong starter would be easyer...

any advices?
thanks,Ronald.

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Old 05-24-2005, 06:36 PM
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To rule out the problem being electrical, then check your wiring and your ignition switch. Not a big deal, just disconnect the S terminal wire, hook a volt meter up to it (positive on wire and black to a good ground), turn the ignition to run and start playing with the wires and wiggling the key as you watch the meter. If it is in the wiring you will see the meter twitch (be sure to set the meter at no more than a 12v scale).

As far as the starter, you could pull the solenoid off and replace the spring with a good used one. I am sure you can find someone with one or check at a shop that rebuilds starters. If the y lever is worn it may be the problem. You could also take the whole starter to a shop for inspection.
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Old 05-24-2005, 07:07 PM
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Easier than that...

Doc here,

To rule out the electrical, just start it and remove the "S" terminal from the solenoid period, then warm or drive it...If it comes back it's not electrical...

Most likely it';s The starter drive unit (mechanical ) It self...

Here is what it looks like:



The Problem will usually be in the starter drive unit...

Electrically, the only thing that will cause this would be a HIGH transient Voltage down the "S" line to the Solenoid...and I should think you'd be having other electrical problems then what you have now.

Are you Sure the Throw out bearing hasn't locked up or shattered? Does the noise Go away when you step on the Clutch? Return when you release it?...Just another thought in "The Big Picture"...Maybe A broken Clutch "Finger" striking the TOB...

Anyway, look at the starter Schematic and Repair or replace as needed, and if all else fails try the Throw out bearing and / or pressure plate...(I know they are new, but new stuff gets broken too...)

I Do however Doubt it's an electrical problem...

Doc
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Old 05-24-2005, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docvette
Doc here,

To rule out the electrical, just start it and remove the "S" terminal from the solenoid period, then warm or drive it...If it comes back it's not electrical...

Most likely it';s The starter drive unit (mechanical ) It self...

Here is what it looks like:



The Problem will usually be in the starter drive unit...

Electrically, the only thing that will cause this would be a HIGH transient Voltage down the "S" line to the Solenoid...and I should think you'd be having other electrical problems then what you have now.

Are you Sure the Throw out bearing hasn't locked up or shattered? Does the noise Go away when you step on the Clutch? Return when you release it?...Just another thought in "The Big Picture"...Maybe A broken Clutch "Finger" striking the TOB...

Anyway, look at the starter Schematic and Repair or replace as needed, and if all else fails try the Throw out bearing and / or pressure plate...(I know they are new, but new stuff gets broken too...)

I Do however Doubt it's an electrical problem...

Doc
I totally agree with you Doc. I doubt it's electrical also but once the thought is planted in ones mind it is better to rule it out so you don't keep thinking of it. I think it would be easier to disconnect the S wire first and then start the car either by a remote starter switch or crossing the S terminal to the positive battery cable with a screwdriver...you can avoid burns on hot exhaust this way.
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Old 05-24-2005, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docvette
Doc here,

To rule out the electrical, just start it and remove the "S" terminal from the solenoid period, then warm or drive it...If it comes back it's not electrical...

Most likely it';s The starter drive unit (mechanical ) It self...

Here is what it looks like:



The Problem will usually be in the starter drive unit...

Electrically, the only thing that will cause this would be a HIGH transient Voltage down the "S" line to the Solenoid...and I should think you'd be having other electrical problems then what you have now.

Are you Sure the Throw out bearing hasn't locked up or shattered? Does the noise Go away when you step on the Clutch? Return when you release it?...Just another thought in "The Big Picture"...Maybe A broken Clutch "Finger" striking the TOB...

Anyway, look at the starter Schematic and Repair or replace as needed, and if all else fails try the Throw out bearing and / or pressure plate...(I know they are new, but new stuff gets broken too...)

I Do however Doubt it's an electrical problem...

Doc
When this happenned I passed into "very worry" mode and could have not recorded everything but I'd say it first happenned while in first gear strolling towards the car's shelter;I've stopped the engine after few seconds of it..waited a bit and restarted /shutted it of two-three times trying with depressed clutch and released..so I would say it was doing it whatever the clutch was used or not.isn't this ruling out things like throw out bearing,clutch disc?
At restarting time the grinding wouldn't be on immediatly but had to wait a short time before it would grind again...

I'll sleep on it and see tomorrow what it will bring but looks like I will opt for a rebuilt unit and shove it in and see..the idea of taking out the S lead after the engine is running sounds simple and cost effective!
thanks,Ronald.

The fork is at his position and the throw0out bearing "looks" O.K. altough I can't spin it manually of course.
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