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Bad body work /cars with hidden surprises

10K views 63 replies 15 participants last post by  69 widetrack 
#1 ·
Has any one bought a car that looked great then found out after the fact it had some very terrible body work done to it? Or just seen some body work that was terrible post up some pics or tell some stories.:thumbup:
 
#38 ·
Iam from the midwest the more and more i talk to people the more i here flat rate sounds like the perfered way to pay your employees in the body shop buisness.It is very common in these parts you get paid 40 to 45 percent of the dollar amount per book hour that means more for frame more for mechanical. The shop i work at is very high quality even with all comission based employees we offer a life time gaurntee on all are paint and body work . So not all shops that are on comission do crap work . We still manage to do on a average of about 325,000 a month in sales
:welcome:
 
#39 ·
Iam from the midwest the more and more i talk to people the more i here flat rate sounds like the perfered way to pay your employees in the body shop buisness.It is very common in these parts you get paid 40 to 45 percent of the dollar amount per book hour that means more for frame more for mechanical. The shop i work at is very high quality even with all comission based employees we offer a life time gaurntee on all are paint and body work . So not all shops that are on comission do crap work . We still manage to do on a average of about 325,000 a month in sales
:welcome:
warranty goes to every owner, or just the one that owns the car when the work is done.. ?

no one said flat rate don't do ok work.. it's just not the same type "quality" they'd do on their OWN car.. as most book time isn't enough time to do the repair correctly, and insurance co. are known to cut you down ,on what they want to pay for.. and what the car needs.. most times are totally different .. cause your replacing all the parts with factory parts right, not "like" parts i.e. used or aftermarket garbage. right..
or straighten a core support when they right for a replacement,
flat rate shop is the only way body shops can make money when the insurance co. will not pay your shop rate, and pays what they say they'll pay..
more over is your warranty go farthar then just the paint failure that the paint surplier would be covering?
many shops are getting caught straight'n high strenth steel parts the oem's and insurance co. require and right for(insurance co.) replacement.. making the finished car unsafe.. and not fixed correctly.. but it does look the part, i.e. it looks fixed..
 
#40 ·
I'm not saying flat rate shops are bad shops...I've worked flat rate...made a bunch of cash and did quality work. What I was trying to say that I have seen greed take over in people that work flat rate and quality has gone down in some cases, the same doesn't happen as often in a straight time shop, the tech gets to repair the vehicle without trying to hurry to get to the next "gravy job".

Ray
 
#41 ·
pos cars...........

If you want to see a REAL POS car,go to youtube,look at corvair from pennsylvania,IF I were that owner,i would fly back from England and burn that place of business to the ground..damn shame.business like that gives ALL AMERICANS a bad name....:nono::nono::nono:
 
#42 ·
most honest flat rate body shops are gonig under as they are NOt on the insurance co.'s "list"
as they won't play "ball" the way the insurance co. wants..
My dad left the bodywork trade as a way of life.. because he could not put out cars the way the insurance co.'s REQUIRED the work to be done..
anyone that says different is LIE'N
HE now does only old cars for friends and club members..
and finally is putting that aside to do HIS cars..
most of todays bodymen only know replace.. they'd never be able to look at a wreck, pull it and straight'n the mess. without cutting out any metal..
and with limited filler.. or god help them if the owner wants it pick and filed.. and/or lead work..
I suck at bodywork.. as I just don't have the Patience..for it..
I can do great job of it.. as I've learned the pick and file/lead etc.. but I have to walk away from it.. as I just get fustrated..
unlike my dad that enjoys it, he's in heaven working on cars straight'n panels and prides himself of the amount of cars they say can't be saved with it's original metal.. and mouths drop when it's at the local show..
 
#43 ·
most honest flat rate body shops are gonig under as they are NOt on the insurance co.'s "list"
as they won't play "ball" the way the insurance co. wants..
My dad left the bodywork trade as a way of life.. because he could not put out cars the way the insurance co.'s REQUIRED the work to be done..
anyone that says different is LIE'N
HE now does only old cars for friends and club members..
and finally is putting that aside to do HIS cars..
most of todays bodymen only know replace.. they'd never be able to look at a wreck, pull it and straight'n the mess. without cutting out any metal..
and with limited filler.. or god help them if the owner wants it pick and filed.. and/or lead work..
I suck at bodywork.. as I just don't have the Patience..for it..
I can do great job of it.. as I've learned the pick and file/lead etc.. but I have to walk away from it.. as I just get fustrated..
unlike my dad that enjoys it, he's in heaven working on cars straight'n panels and prides himself of the amount of cars they say can't be saved with it's original metal.. and mouths drop when it's at the local show..[/QUOT

You are so right about insurance companies and their policies for repairing vehicles. What they don't realize is that they are in a situation where, because they don't pay enough (time wise and dollar per hour for repair) they are going to run into a problem in the future. The problem is that they won't have any certified technicians in the trade. Why would someone get into a trade where they get paid 1/2 of what a mechanical shop gets paid? I have taught at several local College's and sometimes they don't have enough people to fill the seats and the class get's cancelled.

And being on the "preferred list' of shops from an insurance company often means "kick Backs" to the insurance company. So the "preferred shops" are actually paying to be referred by an insurance company. It's disgusting and has been going on for years. To all the people that feel that they need to take their vehicle to a "preferred shop" because that is what the insurance company told them, well you don't have to, it's your car, take it where you want. If they tell you that if you don't take it to their preferred shop they can't warranty the repairs, that's BS as well. The insurance company doesn't warranty the repairs, the body shop does.

Your also right about pick and file, and led work, it seems to be a dying art and an art it is. I still use led when I replace a full quarter on a restoration to match a factory seam, I still pick and file as much as I can. I realize that the metal used on cars today is thinner than than it used to be but, it's still possible and I do it to stay sharp. I did a 1930 model A Ford a while back, picked and filed all 4 fenders, running boards and then used led.

Ray
 
#44 ·
I've probably told this story in another thread, but...

An old customer brought me a 1968 AMX. He wanted to paint it in an updated version of the factory race cars of that era.

The car had been done on a rotisserie during the last restoration. What was obvious to me was the clear was peeling away from the metallic blue basecoat... showing me that they did not understand the adhesion basics for urethanes. No problem! I stripped the clear in one day using an air gun and razor blade!

Before I did that, I had seen some "dust or dirt" in the clearcoat. As the clear came off, I noticed the bumps were actually in the basecoat. I told him I would block it good... and then go to primer next.

When I blocked them... each bump was full of rust! At that point I told him we needed to strip the paint, because the rust obviously would ruin the next paint job too! Obviously the last shop... WHICH WAS IN FLORIDA!!!!!!... did not understand basic urethane paint principles OR "basic rust prevention 101"... either!!!

As the paint was coming off, I could see that this car had bodywork from top to bottom! It continued even futher! After the paint was off, I could see rust nibs under the bodywork! Of course that meant digging out a gallon or more of filler!!!

Under that was a nice selection of patch panels.... and we found some OTHER places that needed further repair work!

In the end we took it all the way back up, adding a factory Super Stock hood scoop, and some additional art on top of the red-white-blue factory race paint.

Today it should be good for 20 years or more... but it was a lengthy task!!!
 

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#45 ·
Love the car Jay, have always been a big fan of the AMX...Own one of each of the 3 good years...68, 69, 70. My 69 is all original with about 40 K original miles...the only thing wrong with it is a dent the size of a quarter just below the rear bumper on the driver's side. I won't fix the dent because it's a true survivor.

It always amazes me how some people can call themselves professional and put out work like you described. Common sense should dictate that things like this don't happen...but like the saying goes, common sense isn't that common. I feel for the unsuspecting public in a case like this, they probably got a tip from a"guy" who knew a "guy" and assumed they would get a first class job.

The stories are endless and I hope against hope that the overall quality of work is getting better. Is it? I don't know, it scares me to no end when I hear a story like yours and it involves a rare car like the AMX you saved.

God Bless you, there aren't enough of those cars left to let inexperienced or lazy people attempt to restore them and in the process make them worse.

Ray
 
#46 ·
Thanks "Widetrack". Today I see the cost of good paint and body being really prohibitive to younger family guys. They are opting to go with the cheaper solutions, just to be able to build.

The guys that usually hire me are 50 to 80... have raised their family... have peaked in their career... have some money to make things possible... and they just want it done RIGHT!

Unfortunately, many of them have enough life-experience to understand what is happening in our leadership. The obvious future of the economy is scaring some of them away from finishing their projects. Good thing I intend to semi-retire in a few years!!! {:)

I will continue to "rock on" as long as the phone keeps ringing.
 
#47 ·
I'm semi retired now and doing what I love when I love to do it, my customers are I' say between 50 and pushing 80 as well. Your right about the cost of products being prohibitive...it's sad when you realize that to paint a car with high end product...it's at least $1,000. The last big frame off job I did was closer to $2,500.
 
#50 ·
people did hella good jobs with a lot less not all that long ago..
most times the mid grade paint job ,scares the owner into not driving it. and then ,sells because it's never used.. it's become a life sized hotwheels..
owners have got pissed at my dad when he'd try to talk them out of the mid/high paint systems on a driver.. try'n to explain.. they'll be afraid to get a chip in it and chance a wreck..
some don't hear what he said untill it's sat in their garage for a year + and seen one or two shows because they can't enjoy it.. as they are freaking out driving it.. and the next car.. gets what daddo. advises after talking to them on what they want out of the CAR. when done..
 
#52 ·
I pulled an 05 monty in the shop to fix a damaged door ,a few hours later I was finished and closed the door when I heard something hit the floor ,when I turned around it was any bodymans nightmare....A hudge chunk of bondo just fell out of the 1/4 about 12"x12"and about 1 1/2" thick...IT JUST FELL OUT...I never even touched the 1/4, someone had used a slide puller (I think just for the holes) because it was still shinny paint underneath ,the holes were all that it was holding onto...
The shape of it looked like the state of Texas ,so I saved it and hung it up...Look to theleft of the booth window,its hanging under the shelf...

A couple years later it happend again on an 80 something Porche but this time it looked like the state of Fla...I saved that one too...I sure hope my United states of bondo collection ends here I'd hate to end up any more...Or whats next ..... Jesus or the virgin Mary
 

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#53 ·
deadbodyman::welcome:

I was working on an old Mopar Engine and trans install a few months ago!! I lowered the engine and bumped the cross member hard and a 3 foot x one foot piece droped out of the quarter LOL It was a good 6 inches thick:drunk: It must have been 30 LB.'s !!!!! It was so funny the owner was there with his buddy's talking about what good shape it was in, Everyone was laughing but the owner LOL:D

Jester:thumbup:
 
#55 ·

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#57 ·
I knew an old guy that was a heavy equipment operator that had an old P/U with a rotted out floor...One day when the cement truck had poured a footing for a bridge he decided while he was sitting around that he would get some of that mesh and fix that hole, then he scraped up some cement that fell on the ground and threw that over the mesh ....worked like a champ he said, until a coulpe months later.....He was driving down the highway and a chunk of it fell out and blew his tire when he ran over it....Funny ,yes but it could have killed him...or worse someone else....
 
#59 ·
Right, Right and did I mention that you where Right...Prep is the major part on any paint job...With out good prep, there is no reason to paint a vehicle...I won't...I used to send vehicles back to the prep line when I worked flat rate and even when I worked straight time. People do get excited and the laymen will call poor prep work a bad paint job...and in a way I guess their right...it shouldn't have been painted.

Now that I'm in a position to work on the vehicles I want to work on and when I want to work on them...I insist I do all my own prep work...That way I know that it's done to the standards I want...It used to take me months to train a good prep person and a good prepper is way under rated and deserves to get paid in the same range as a good painter...they go hand in hand.

Ray
 
#60 ·
Always said the best paintjobs are all in the blocking and buffing skills, period. You could put a bad paint job on good prep work and possibly salvage it as long as there is enough material to sand into for buffing. But if the prep on the blocking end of it is bad (ripples) then I don't care how good you can paint or buff the end result will still look bad. I am probably my own worst enemy with being critical on the blocking end of it, and wont stop until it is right and ready to spray. Then the work begins all over again when it's time to start wet sanding and buffing, this is where all the hard work really pays off. By the way Ray, I have had a few AMC muscle cars myself. Started off with the 304 powered gremlin X's, then picked up a hurst sc/rambler, then a 69 AMX with the 390 go pak and 4 speed. Unfortunately had to sell the sc/rambler a few years back (thanks to this economy). The AMX was sold back in 97, and the gremlins had a lot of fun with swapping out the bigger 343 and 360's. How long have you been into the AMC's?
 
#61 ·
I've been into all muscle cars but AMC was one that I fell in love with in 1970. The AMX was into it's 3rd year and I was looking for my first real car...My neighbor was selling his 290 68 AMX and I always loved the looks, with a 2 seater, I wouldn't be able to have a bunch of rowdy buddies in the car and it was just different. He wanted a whopping $1,400 for the car and all I had saves up was about $1,200. So I ended up with a 67 Firebird...it was great had it for years and did paint body and engine work. Still loved AMC, so in 1990 I was at an estate sale and picked up my first AMC, I finally got a 69 AMX 390 4 speed group 19 package with about 40,000 miles for $1,750. Still have the car and have added the 68 and 70 to the AMX collection as well as a 68 343 4 speed Rebel, 70 Machine, and a 71 Gremlin. The pride of the AMC part of my collection is the 69 AMX....it's almost to clean and original to drive. The last time I drove it I lost a fan belt and it took me a while to find a NOS belt to replace it. So now I'm collecting as much NOS stuff that I can find for my AMC's

I always wanted the 69 SC/Scrambler but a good one is hard to find and when I have found one, well for some reason (I know they only made about 1,500 of them) they are priced real high. Oh well, 1 day I'll get lucky and get that barn find.
 
#62 ·
I guess I should mention that I have several pre 71 Javelins, but thy aren't done yet, I've put them on the back burner for now but, they will get done. They should be counted in my AMC stable, but I don't consider them as a true part of the collection until the're done.

Not a big fan of the 1971 and up AMC's (as a rule, except the Gremlin), I call the Javelin's and the AMX's humpsters, because of the humps over the front and rear wheels. Some people like them, I don't.
 
#63 ·
Sounds like quite a collection you have there. That Machine you have is it R/W/B paint or a color? Always liked those cars, the guy that bought my scrambler, his brother who I know quite well has a nice collection of rare AMC muscle cars and has a real nice machine. I am with you on the 71 up big hump fender javs and amx's. The last one as far as I am concerned was the 70 AMX. Not too many people care for the amc's and I think the AMX was never really recognized for the great muscle car it really was and could hold its own against any of the other big motored muscle cars of it's day. Today the scrambler is mostly sought after for it's rarity, as they only built 1512 of them. Now because all the wealthy collectors are getting into this the prices are out of reach. When I bought mine back in 1987 I did not buy it because of it's rarity and the fact that some day it would be a collectors item, I bought it because I really liked the car a lot and thought it was the wildest paint sheme to ever come from the factory. I drove the car hard, the way they used to be driven even after I finished the restoration back in 1990. Today if you were to take a ride in one of these cars, it would not be anything like it was back then by any means, for the fear of something happening to this "valuable" piece of history.
 
#64 ·
Yes my machine is the R/W/B, I was fortunate enough to get NOS decals for it and have an extra set...just in case, if anything happened it would be next to impossible to replace. my 68 Rebel, was quite a deal, I saw and add in the local news paper for it and it read, "for sale, 68 Rebel, new 4 speed transmission, 343, running, $800.00." I figured the 4 speed alone would be great and I could make up the rest with a running 343...well I went and looked at the car and the body, although the original paint (blue) was faded, was mint, same with the interior. I didn't argue, I paid the guy, drove it home and kept the car. I didn't do a frame off on it, it would have been nice but,really didn't need it. Just did the paint, cleaned up the interior and rebuilt the front end. One of my better deals...except my 69 AMX...I'll never part with that one.

Your right about the after 1970 AMC's...again...except the Gremlin. I loved the Gremlin because it was so easy to drop whatever AMC, V8 you wanted in them, and they are so ugly, they look good...it's almost like AMC was building a car, ran out of resources and cut 2 feet off the back to save money...it was like a V8 Vega with 1/10 the work. My Gremlin now has a 1971 AMC 401 in it and is a blast to drive. Does it go fast in the 1/4 mile? NO...I haven't done any suspension work to it, but the best burnouts you can imagine.

I still would love to get a SC/Scrambler, I think it would make my AMC collection complete, for me anyway. I'm sure someday I'll either be able to afford the asking price for a good one or find one that's rebuildable for a decent price. When I got my Machine decal kits, I also got a NOS Scrambler kit complete.
 
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