[69 widetrack]

How's the upholstery coming? That's an area I would love to get better at.

I will search "rubber springs" thank you...when you get around to putting them in, please keep me informed...I would much appreciate it.

Ray

[Joe G]

Originally Posted by diggers

Has any one bought a car that looked great then found out after the fact it had some very terrible body work done to it? Or just seen some body work that was terrible post up some pics or tell some stories.

My friend is having his '63 Fairlane built at a shop in the Chicago area. The car looked real nice, even up close, but we knew there were surprises in store when we looked in the trunk and saw that the previous restorer had used cardboard and spray foam to repair the rear wheel wells. He even used some chicken wire for good measure.

It's not as bad as the previously mentioned hockey stick windshield pillar repair, but it goes to show you never can tell what you have until you get down to bare metal.

Here's a few pics:



(click for more pics)

[69 widetrack]

And they used spray foam in the trunk to fill those rust holes...It just makes a person wonder...and it brings back more bad memories...

Here's one about a "hack", not just your ordinary "hack", he was a lazy "hack"...I walked into a body shop in Northern Alberta (I won't mention the name of the town, the internet has made the world a very small place) but I saw a body man mixing filler on an 8 inch "stick it" disc...I asked what he was doing and he looked at me with his cigarette hanging from his mouth, ashes ready to fall into his filler and said 2 words..."rust repair". I looked at him as if I had a question on my mind or as to say I don't understand. His explanation, though short made me want to laugh and cry at the same time...He said, "boss only gave me 1/2 hour to fix that hole...put the filler on the stick it paper, slap the stick it paper over the hole, the stick it paper sticks to the metal around the rust hole and makes it the shape of the quarter panel...almost no sanding".

My first thought was, you lazy S.O.B. ... but then I thought for a minute, lazy yes, but ingenious too.

I was actually quite surprised how well the 8 inch "stick it" disc did form to the rusted out quarter panel and as I watched, he beat his 1/2 hour time limited by over 5 minutes, ready for primer.

I just hope that there aren't people reading this thinking it's a good idea.

Ray

[sedanbob]

Ray, The seats are covered and they are working on the door panels. With any luck I'll have it back by Christmas! We are using a dark brown vinyl material similar to Ultraleather. I'll post lots of pictures when it's done. Thanks for asking.

[69 widetrack]

That's great Bob, I look forward to seeing them, it must be exciting to get rid of that milk crate you've been using for a seat, let alone the towels that you won't need to use anymore.

Ray

[WriterDennis]

All of these are reasons that I suggest stripping the paint (one way or another) to bare metal before repainting a vehicle. You never, and I mean never know for sure what you will find otherwise.

Dennis W. Parks
Author of automotive how-to books

[69 widetrack]

Originally Posted by WriterDennis

All of these are reasons that I suggest stripping the paint (one way or another) to bare metal before repainting a vehicle. You never, and I mean never know for sure what you will find otherwise.

Dennis W. Parks
Author of automotive how-to books

Knowing what your substrate is, how it's been applied and how it's finished are the cornerstones to any body and or paint job. The use of body filler hardner for example, I've seen so much hardner added to body filler that it did the exact opposite, it didn't harden. Even the overuse of hardner when mixing body filler causes problems, like bleed through, especially on light colors...and of course the paint rep gets called when the brand new white paint job is stained to either a pinkish brown or a light blue and the shop owner wanting warranty.

I used to go to my jobber ( the one who sold the shop the paint and generally sold them all the sundries like filler and sand paper) to find out how many extra tubes of hardner they where buying in comparison to gallons of filler. This one particular shop was buying 2 extra tubes of blue hardner for every gallon which would normally use 1 tube. Why did the white paint job turn blue? Why was there no warranty?

The sad part is that in some cases the customer accepts the work.

[tech69]

from experience, I'd say we were all hacks at one point. There seems to be an order of skills obtained and often times you will be a hack until someone points it out and you learn from it. Thick edges of filler is one thing. If you have a big dent and you know your filler is gonna go to the edge you gotta use a straight edge or something to indicate if there's metal work to be done to eliminate thick filler on edges. A straight edge nearly eliminates this problem. Another thing for me was pin holes. In a crunch, instead of wiping it down hard I would fill AND try to wipe it down hard to straighten and also leave me no pinholes. This just led to trouble. Always better to get it done and throw on more tight coat, and even the mixing and flattening it out will help with this. Now, I don't even need a poly glaze or top coating filler, I can get pinhole free work with good fillers. Another example is knowing where to skimp on the cheapie jobs. On this superbee we're doing the boss had a look at the dull yellow paint and thought it would be minimal spot filling. Turns out the color is deceptive and it needed more work. The decklid needed a lot of work and so instead of being patient and working the thing thru I stopped and made a judgement call. Turns out, after prime, I just spent 30 more minutes on it and it was a done deal. I should have just dealt with it the first time around. This was also a learning experience to know WHERE to cut corners and where not to. So for that job I can now safely say that the decklid and hood are looking good but thank god that reflective yellow paint will hide some imperfections down low, as I've learned THIS is where you'll be making shortcuts if called for. with that said, it's also a place where lazy older techs seem to miss stuff, even on the higher end jobs. Just trying to give reasoning behind some of the hacking you see from a tech's standpoint.

[69 widetrack]

Originally Posted by tech69

from experience, I'd say we were all hacks at one point. There seems to be an order of skills obtained and often times you will be a hack until someone points it out and you learn from it. Thick edges of filler is one thing. If you have a big dent and you know your filler is gonna go to the edge you gotta use a straight edge or something to indicate if there's metal work to be done to eliminate thick filler on edges. A straight edge nearly eliminates this problem. Another thing for me was pin holes. In a crunch, instead of wiping it down hard I would fill AND try to wipe it down hard to straighten and also leave me no pinholes. This just led to trouble. Always better to get it done and throw on more tight coat, and even the mixing and flattening it out will help with this. Now, I don't even need a poly glaze or top coating filler, I can get pinhole free work with good fillers. Another example is knowing where to skimp on the cheapie jobs. On this superbee we're doing the boss had a look at the dull yellow paint and thought it would be minimal spot filling. Turns out the color is deceptive and it needed more work. The decklid needed a lot of work and so instead of being patient and working the thing thru I stopped and made a judgement call. Turns out, after prime, I just spent 30 more minutes on it and it was a done deal. I should have just dealt with it the first time around. This was also a learning experience to know WHERE to cut corners and where not to. So for that job I can now safely say that the decklid and hood are looking good but thank god that reflective yellow paint will hide some imperfections down low, as I've learned THIS is where you'll be making shortcuts if called for. with that said, it's also a place where lazy older techs seem to miss stuff, even on the higher end jobs. Just trying to give reasoning behind some of the hacking you see from a tech's standpoint.

Your right..."let he who is without sin cast the first stone"...If you've been in the trade long enough, with respect to cutting corners, we've all done it...to save time, stretching products to and past the limit. The difference here I feel is deliberately using products, like filler on a panel (without an attempt to pull the panel) that should have been replaced, to defraud and unsuspecting public.

It's one thing for a novice to over extend products (they may not know better), it's another thing when a technician, trained and educated in the trade, regardless of age exceeds recommended tolerances from product manufacturer's and causes product failure...As with driving a car and speeding tickets, you only get so many chances and your driving privileges are revoked. Maybe the same method should be adopted for licensed technicians?

I'm sure I don't need to mention this to you "Tech69" but, for the people that don't know, as far as pin holes go, most pin holes are caused when mixing the filler and the hardner. The hardner should be folded into the filler not stirred into the filler. Stirring causes tiny air bubble to get trapped in the filler, leaving pin holes which can be a bear to see sometimes with the naked eye...They sure are visible after the car is painted though.

Just my thoughts.

Ray

[ogre]

a friend removed this from the rocker of a 63 impala brought to him for a paint job.
hood was so heavy that the springs wouldn't hold it up, he estimated 12 gallons of filler on the car.
no sanding or de-waxing of the old paint, just started adding filler to the car to make the doors fit better.
funny thing is that my friend talked the owner into stripping the car and found a rust free, damage free 63 impala body.

[69 widetrack]

Wow Ogre, I bet he even got better gas mileage and quarter mile times with all that filler removed.

Now this is what I'm talking about...There is no way that any self respecting body man would do a job like this. This is a perfect example of deliberate abuse to defraud.

Ray

[sedanbob]

Shopping for a van some years ago, I saw a VW van for sale - price was OK, engine sounded OK - the salesman mentioned "fresh paint". When I looked closer at the paint, I noticed it was only fresh from a body line down - so I looked closer. When I got to the rockers, I saw that they were just aluminum tape over giant rust holes, that had been painted. The edges of the tape were even starting to come loose! I poked a hole in it with my finger (half by accident) - told the guy I wasn't interested, pointing to the rockers. As I was walking away I heard him say "Crap, now we'll have to paint it again!"

[tech69]

Originally Posted by ogre

a friend removed this from the rocker of a 63 impala brought to him for a paint job.
hood was so heavy that the springs wouldn't hold it up, he estimated 12 gallons of filler on the car.
no sanding or de-waxing of the old paint, just started adding filler to the car to make the doors fit better.
funny thing is that my friend talked the owner into stripping the car and found a rust free, damage free 63 impala body.

Man, that is probably the thickest I've seen ever! What's baffling is that a lot of guys who pile it on like that actually can get the filler to look straight. It has always been my theory that if you don't metal work the metal it's a head ache when in filler cause if you have a good hand feel you will keep finding crap cause you have overwhelmed yourself. I imagine those guys fill so thick that they not only get pinholes they get little pockets of air. I never thought it to be easier to do more mud work then less metal work. Doesn't make sense at all.

[ogre]

Originally Posted by 69 widetrack

This is a perfect example of deliberate abuse to defraud.

the owner of the car did this. he nothing about body work. this chunk popped of with a putty knife.
like i mentioned there was a rust free, damage free 63 impala under all that filler.
we have no idea what he was thinking, all the body lines were gone.
it's a sweet car now.

[69 widetrack]

So the owner did it...then I recant my post...if that's the case, the poor guy defrauded himself and spent money for nothing or...Again, Wow, I guess the body filler helped preserve a pristine car, kept it in a cocoon.