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Bad body work /cars with hidden surprises

10K views 63 replies 15 participants last post by  69 widetrack 
#1 ·
Has any one bought a car that looked great then found out after the fact it had some very terrible body work done to it? Or just seen some body work that was terrible post up some pics or tell some stories.:thumbup:
 
#2 ·
This is without a doubt as common as any other hack repair work done to vehicles just to sell them...I have seen filler over 4 inches thick in the quarter panel of a Dodge Dart, the complete bottom of a car carved in fiberglass, street signs used for floor boards...The worst I think I ever saw was the shaft of hockey sticks wedged into both A pillars on a 66 Nova to hide the rust. It was covered with fiberglass and body filler... even parts of the windshield channel where metal pop riveted to whatever metal was left and filled with filler. It happens every day and it's pure and total abuse.
 
#3 ·
Buddy of mine bought a 59 chevy sedan delivery car looked great had shaved handles and all mouldings shaved.Bought new quarter mldgs to put on upon discovery they had filed the body lines up solid with filler over an inch of filler the car was straight to. He wanted to put the door handles back in it as well once he started doing that he discovered they put aluminum tape over door handle hole and lock cylinder and mudded right over it . Car was straight and looked good he is a body man by trade told him he needs to strip the rest of the car now to make sure there isnt any other hidden surpises!
 
#4 ·
Aluminum tape...it's disgusting what some people will do...and still sleep at night...I remember a 76 Trans Am that a customer brought to me to do a frame ON restoration and wanted a quote (which I never do until it's stripped), I told him that it needed to be taken down to metal to see what I was dealing with...started stripping the car and both lower rear quarters had sweat socks stuffed into rust holes and body filler over top...When the car pulled up to m y shop it looked pretty good...whoever did it was good with filler...he should have been a sculptor, not a body man.

This also reminds me of a shop that I knew many many years ago...he used to do paint jobs for used car lots and cut the paint with leaded gasoline instead of reducer...it would shine like no tomorrow, for about 2 weeks and die off in a hurry..the lot had 2 weeks to sell the car.
 
#8 ·
A friend of mine (first time 'bodyman') fixing up an old VW bug, used some filler to smooth out some small dents above the headlight on the drivers side. He kept adding filler and shaping it until he thought it looked right. I told him it looked like it had an eyelid above the headlight - when he compared it to the passenger side, he realized what he had done, but liked the way it looked, so he added filler to the passenger side!
 
#9 ·
OH Bob, first off, did you ever get that bump stop intalled? Still thinking about that...

Your VW story reminds me of the old days when instead of shortening the rear end and tubing a car they used to cut the wheel wells our and flair the quarter so they could stuff fat tires underneath...I never did get that and thought it looked like crap...how many nice cars got ruined all because of needing to have fat tires...My buddy had a 68 Chevelle, nice strong little 350 car, clean but had to put the L 60 X 15's on the back and the only way was to either lift it up in the air or cut the quarter, he cut the quarter...What a waste.
 
#10 ·
Im working on a Shelby right now that did not look too bad when it came in, had some blistering rust holes here and there as they usually do. Sent it out to the blaster and when I went to pick it up, boy was it a mess. The rear quarters were so patched up with pieces from other cars, all welded and pop riveted with fiberglass pieces holding the inner wheelwells together. The driver side quarter was hit by the tailight and instead of pulling it all out they just muded the whole thing together (some spots 1 inch thick) and the best part was the trunk drop on that side had 3 inch thick foam pop riveted into a piece of sheetmetal. Needless to say it all had to be cut out and replaced with all fresh sheetmetal.
 
#11 ·
terrible bodywork is often times what the customer asks for. They think the stuff is easy so they go hire these crack tweaks and generally don't know what to ask for or look for in qualifications. These poor victims are the guys that go into your shop and have a heart attack when you tell them the cost of the repair. So they look for "cheaper" ways and end up getting the short end of the stick. You also got "buddies" who do bodywork. I'm sure we all heard that before. Or what about the car flippers who tell their victims in a russian accent, "It's a salvage title but just a little front end damage, nothing major."
 
#12 ·
Yes, the good old flipper that takes a vehicle that has a salvage title and puts it back on the road...There are many vehicles that when there is a salvage title, the only reason it has a salvage title is age and the value of the vehicle doesn't allow enough for a reputable shop to do proper repairs...say for example, you have a 10 year old vehicle and it's hit in the right front corner...the damage is hood, fender bumper, headlight assembly, grill and rad support, nothing structural...That car, if it was 5, 6 or 7 years newer, would be repaired and the car would be safe without any one needing to worry about safety or other issues.

The "flipper" is the one that takes vehicles with extensive frame damage and with nothing more than a telephone pole and 15 feet of chain, wraps the frame in the chain and proceeds to back up as rapidly as possible to bring the frame close enough to hang used sheet metal from it making door gaps close enough to open the door and if the gap is to wide, nothing more to the fix than than carve 3/16 of an inch extra to the panel out of fiberglass. If the gap is to small, a grinder will shorten that panel much quicker than getting proper measurements on the frame to achieve fit and finish.

And then there's the "flipper" that imports vehicles from another Province "Canada" or state where rust is a major concern. No salvage title, the car looks great, but structurally the car is a hazard. In Canada most vehicles brought in from another Province need to be mechanically and structurally certified before they can be licensed...this should, one would think, eliminate dangerous vehicles being put on the road when buying a vehicle from one of these rust prone areas. Not the case.

12 years ago I was involved in a situation where the wife of a former employer of mine was in the market for a 95 Camaro (the car was only 5 years old at the time)...I was asked if I would help her find a suitable Camaro and I agreed...I checked local reputable dealerships, gave her a call and said that I had found 4 or 5 that we could go and look at. I was told at the time that she had just purchased a white 95 Camaro and all was well. I said OK great (now my Saturday was free). A month later she called me and asked if I could adjust the driver's side door for her because it was getting more and more difficult to open and close. My radar went off and I agreed to "look" at the car. When I got to see the car I opened the door and as it opened it dropped at least 2 inches. I lifted up on the door (hoping I would see loose pins and bushings in the hinges), this moved the front fender...same situation on the passenger side, the door pillars where completely rotted out. We brought the vehicle to the shop and lifted it up in the air...The rear frame rails where so bad, by tapping them with a hammer we put holes in the frame. This car had been certified so it only gets better.

We drove the car to shop that certified it and they said that at the time they certified it there was nothing wrong with the vehicle, (it had been certified about 45 days previously). I asked who the government insurance agent was for that area and I wanted him to see the car. After much hesitation and a little song and dance all I got was a name and we where told to leave which we did. I called the agent and he mentioned that he knew the shop that certified the car well and that they where very reputable. I told him that if that was the case he wouldn't mind meeting us there so he could physically look at the car himself and make up his own mind...he agreed. At the shop we put the car up in the air and we showed him the door pillars, frame rails and the rust scales on the underneath of the floor...I couldn't believe what I heard, the insurance agent said it was surface rust and nothing to worry about...I took a blunt screwdriver, poked it through the floor and said "surface rust?" The insurance guy then asked me how long I had been in the trade and if I knew what I was doing, because if I had any experience at all I would notice that the doors had no rust at all and if rust was an issue that is where it would show...I told him that the bumper covers didn't have rust either and that if he had any experience at all he would know that they where both made of plastic.

We ended up suing the used car lot, the inspection station and the government insurance...it was settled that the purchase price of the car was refunded. The used car lot lost there license, the inspection station lost their privilege to do inspections and the insurance agent was given an opportunity to be successful some place else...(they fired him).

It just goes to show that just because a car has a salvage title, doesn't mean it not road worthy, or, on the other side of the coin, just because a car is certified doesn't mean it is road worthy...The old adage, buyer beware, is alive and well. If someone is buying a used car that doesn't have a good deal of knowledge about vehicles should bring people with them that do, not just the mechanic guy, the body guy as well, and make sure the people that they bring with them are credible.

Ray
 
#13 ·
My rust free Florida 1989 cargo Astro van had a previous owner that pounded down apart of the wheel well for more foot room.It tore a opening in the wheel well.Once I tore out the rubber mat I was disappointed in what I found.The padding soaked up all the water that got in there and rusted out the floor board.



Oh well.It will be right once I'm done with it.
 
#15 ·
Ray, Still haven't installed the bump stops - car is at the trimmers getting upholstery done. I'll have plenty of time this winter to get them installed. Thanks for asking. I saw some information about "rubber springs" - large progressively cushioned rubber spring boosters - in a variety of sizes/firmness. They make huge ones that supplement the springs in a truck for hauling/towing. The smaller ones might also function like the progressive bumpstops I was thinking of. Might have some application for your project. Search for rubber springs.
 
#17 ·
My friend is having his '63 Fairlane built at a shop in the Chicago area. The car looked real nice, even up close, but we knew there were surprises in store when we looked in the trunk and saw that the previous restorer had used cardboard and spray foam to repair the rear wheel wells. He even used some chicken wire for good measure.

It's not as bad as the previously mentioned hockey stick windshield pillar repair, but it goes to show you never can tell what you have until you get down to bare metal.

Here's a few pics:



(click for more pics)
 
#18 ·
And they used spray foam in the trunk to fill those rust holes...It just makes a person wonder...and it brings back more bad memories...

Here's one about a "hack", not just your ordinary "hack", he was a lazy "hack"...I walked into a body shop in Northern Alberta (I won't mention the name of the town, the internet has made the world a very small place) but I saw a body man mixing filler on an 8 inch "stick it" disc...I asked what he was doing and he looked at me with his cigarette hanging from his mouth, ashes ready to fall into his filler and said 2 words..."rust repair". I looked at him as if I had a question on my mind or as to say I don't understand. His explanation, though short made me want to laugh and cry at the same time...He said, "boss only gave me 1/2 hour to fix that hole...put the filler on the stick it paper, slap the stick it paper over the hole, the stick it paper sticks to the metal around the rust hole and makes it the shape of the quarter panel...almost no sanding".

My first thought was, you lazy S.O.B. ... but then I thought for a minute, lazy yes, but ingenious too.

I was actually quite surprised how well the 8 inch "stick it" disc did form to the rusted out quarter panel and as I watched, he beat his 1/2 hour time limited by over 5 minutes, ready for primer.

I just hope that there aren't people reading this thinking it's a good idea.

Ray
 
#22 ·
Knowing what your substrate is, how it's been applied and how it's finished are the cornerstones to any body and or paint job. The use of body filler hardner for example, I've seen so much hardner added to body filler that it did the exact opposite, it didn't harden. Even the overuse of hardner when mixing body filler causes problems, like bleed through, especially on light colors...and of course the paint rep gets called when the brand new white paint job is stained to either a pinkish brown or a light blue and the shop owner wanting warranty.

I used to go to my jobber ( the one who sold the shop the paint and generally sold them all the sundries like filler and sand paper) to find out how many extra tubes of hardner they where buying in comparison to gallons of filler. This one particular shop was buying 2 extra tubes of blue hardner for every gallon which would normally use 1 tube. Why did the white paint job turn blue? Why was there no warranty?

The sad part is that in some cases the customer accepts the work.
 
#23 ·
from experience, I'd say we were all hacks at one point. There seems to be an order of skills obtained and often times you will be a hack until someone points it out and you learn from it. Thick edges of filler is one thing. If you have a big dent and you know your filler is gonna go to the edge you gotta use a straight edge or something to indicate if there's metal work to be done to eliminate thick filler on edges. A straight edge nearly eliminates this problem. Another thing for me was pin holes. In a crunch, instead of wiping it down hard I would fill AND try to wipe it down hard to straighten and also leave me no pinholes. This just led to trouble. Always better to get it done and throw on more tight coat, and even the mixing and flattening it out will help with this. Now, I don't even need a poly glaze or top coating filler, I can get pinhole free work with good fillers. Another example is knowing where to skimp on the cheapie jobs. On this superbee we're doing the boss had a look at the dull yellow paint and thought it would be minimal spot filling. Turns out the color is deceptive and it needed more work. The decklid needed a lot of work and so instead of being patient and working the thing thru I stopped and made a judgement call. Turns out, after prime, I just spent 30 more minutes on it and it was a done deal. I should have just dealt with it the first time around. This was also a learning experience to know WHERE to cut corners and where not to. So for that job I can now safely say that the decklid and hood are looking good but thank god that reflective yellow paint will hide some imperfections down low, as I've learned THIS is where you'll be making shortcuts if called for. with that said, it's also a place where lazy older techs seem to miss stuff, even on the higher end jobs. Just trying to give reasoning behind some of the hacking you see from a tech's standpoint.
 
#24 ·
Your right..."let he who is without sin cast the first stone"...If you've been in the trade long enough, with respect to cutting corners, we've all done it...to save time, stretching products to and past the limit. The difference here I feel is deliberately using products, like filler on a panel (without an attempt to pull the panel) that should have been replaced, to defraud and unsuspecting public.

It's one thing for a novice to over extend products (they may not know better), it's another thing when a technician, trained and educated in the trade, regardless of age exceeds recommended tolerances from product manufacturer's and causes product failure...As with driving a car and speeding tickets, you only get so many chances and your driving privileges are revoked. Maybe the same method should be adopted for licensed technicians?

I'm sure I don't need to mention this to you "Tech69" but, for the people that don't know, as far as pin holes go, most pin holes are caused when mixing the filler and the hardner. The hardner should be folded into the filler not stirred into the filler. Stirring causes tiny air bubble to get trapped in the filler, leaving pin holes which can be a bear to see sometimes with the naked eye...They sure are visible after the car is painted though.

Just my thoughts.

Ray
 
#25 ·
a friend removed this from the rocker of a 63 impala brought to him for a paint job.
hood was so heavy that the springs wouldn't hold it up, he estimated 12 gallons of filler on the car.
no sanding or de-waxing of the old paint, just started adding filler to the car to make the doors fit better.
funny thing is that my friend talked the owner into stripping the car and found a rust free, damage free 63 impala body.

 
#28 ·
Man, that is probably the thickest I've seen ever! What's baffling is that a lot of guys who pile it on like that actually can get the filler to look straight. It has always been my theory that if you don't metal work the metal it's a head ache when in filler cause if you have a good hand feel you will keep finding crap cause you have overwhelmed yourself. I imagine those guys fill so thick that they not only get pinholes they get little pockets of air. I never thought it to be easier to do more mud work then less metal work. Doesn't make sense at all.
 
#27 ·
Shopping for a van some years ago, I saw a VW van for sale - price was OK, engine sounded OK - the salesman mentioned "fresh paint". When I looked closer at the paint, I noticed it was only fresh from a body line down - so I looked closer. When I got to the rockers, I saw that they were just aluminum tape over giant rust holes, that had been painted. The edges of the tape were even starting to come loose! I poked a hole in it with my finger (half by accident) - told the guy I wasn't interested, pointing to the rockers. As I was walking away I heard him say "Crap, now we'll have to paint it again!"
 
#31 ·
most of this body work is from the days when these cars where, well, worthless..
and just old cars , fixed to get back on the road.. my 75 cutlass fit this.. it was a rolling p.o.s. looked great..showed well, ran well,(well as good as a 260 v8 could) sounded good , but was put together with whatever was around as it was a 50.oo car.. I sold it for 200.oo lol..
I could've sold it for 3000.oo as it looked the part.. but just couldn't do that..
 
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