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Old 04-21-2013, 07:08 PM
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Baffled over burnt points

Hi,
I was pulling my hair out trying to find a answer to my elec. problem when I came across this site. I'm currently living in so. cal. and spend way too much time on my cars, but I just can't put down the wrenches when I'm out in the garage. Married 36 yrs. no kids with this one and we still like each other. I have a 67 mustang fastback almost done. 67 jeep cj5 all restored to original done, but having problems. We have 5 acres in northwest Washington state where we plan to retire very soon. I put up a 40 X 40 metal shop electricity is in water in and a big chunk of change for the septic, but it's in and working. It's nice and quite up there and yes I know it rains alot but we like the cool weather and the rain we don't get down here. So that's about it for the introduce yourself part.

Know for the reason I'm here. I have a 67 Jeep CJ5 V6 ODDFIRE 225 all has been done to the engine. The distributor had a bad vacuum advance so I opt. for thr HEI conversion but the darn thing would fit, well it did fit but I couldn't get much movement on it to time it because advancing it hit the water outlet and retarting it hit the hold down on the cap aginst the head. Anyway I found a replacement distributor from CARDONE through Pep Boys ordered it and install it. Started fine ran good well good for a few miles then the points burned. replaced them and again the pow burnt again. I'm running a ballast resistor. Voltage to the coil is (with key on) 5.85 volts (with it running) 9 volts to the plus side and 3. something on the neg. side going to the distributor. ballast resistor putting out .3 omhs so it sounds to be in the right parameters. I Even replaced the ignition switch thinking there was a short send to much juice to the coil. The oddest thing is that the old distributor worked find the only drawback was the vacuum advance not working giving me bad mpg. Any help or ideas would be greatfully appreciated. Thank Kadar

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Old 04-21-2013, 07:16 PM
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Not sure without being there,, But did you ever think about taking the points out and going with a Pertronix unit ?? Then you can still have the small distributor and also have the electronic ignition..Just a thought..
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Old 04-21-2013, 09:18 PM
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Swap the new vacuum advance into your old distributor if you still have it. If it did not do it before I would suspect the distributor. Pertronix work great, I have had them on four vehicles with no problem.
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Old 04-21-2013, 09:50 PM
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Try replacing the condenser. If it's bad you'll burn points.

BB
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:56 AM
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agree with boothboy

u can look at mallory points eliminator kit too..
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:01 AM
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Thanks everyone,
someone mentioned going with a pertronix kit. Is it easy to install, I mean do I need special tools for it. And you have to pull the shaft out of the housing to install something on the cam lobes.
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadar View Post
Thanks everyone,
someone mentioned going with a pertronix kit. Is it easy to install, I mean do I need special tools for it. And you have to pull the shaft out of the housing to install something on the cam lobes.
Some I think you do.. But the ones I have used you don't have to pull the shaft to install... Just take out the two screws that holds the points and install it where the points go... Very easy to do..
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Old 04-22-2013, 02:45 PM
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Not an expert here, but those voltages sound very odd.
9V at the (+) side of the coil with engine running sounds a bit high, but 3.x V on the (-) side sounds low.
Does your coil say "Use with external resistor" ? (It should)

From what I can determine, using the NAPA ProLink catalog here at home, you should have a Delco-Remy distributor and ignition system on that CJ5.

Dist Cap should look like this. Correct?


IF so, Here's a list of NAPA/Echlin part numbers for the correct match.

IC-12 Ignition Coil "Use with External Resistor"
(I won't bother posting a pic of the coil...)
==================



ICR-13 Ignition Coil Resistor - 1.82 Ohms
Be careful on this resistor, as there are many that look identical, but have different resistance values.
==================



CS-786P Points
(HD pierced - my preference - cool better than the solid contacts - good to 6,000 rpm)
==================


For some reason ... there is no listing for the condenser for this particular year. Possibly an error due to the change from Kaiser-Jeep???
RR-176 fits 68-69 CJ5, as well as most GM of that era.
==================



There is also an electronic ignition conversion available from either Blue Streak (#LX808) or NAPA Echlin (#TP-353) but you might want to sit down when you price it out.
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Old 04-22-2013, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadar View Post
Thanks everyone,
someone mentioned going with a pertronix kit. Is it easy to install, I mean do I need special tools for it. And you have to pull the shaft out of the housing to install something on the cam lobes.
If you look at the Blue-streak website for the LX-808 conversion kit, it looks like the armature is round on the outside, hexagonal on the inside.

It appears to slip on over top of the lobes used to open/close mechanical points.

http://www.bluestreak.ca/Engine%20Ma...k/Content.aspx

Click on the "Part Number" tab, then type "LX808" in the entry box

Last edited by 66GMC; 04-22-2013 at 02:54 PM.
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Old 04-30-2013, 11:34 AM
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Ignition

Thanks everyone for all the input. It was the distributor I bought from Pep Boys. It must of had a short or maybe not grounded well. I got a new vacuum advance canster and installed it into the old distrimutor along with new points & condensor and the jeep runs fine.
I did order the pertonix 1165 and the coil that goes with it. Will istall it this week end and let you know if it made any difference.

Thanks again all Kadar
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Old 04-30-2013, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadar View Post
Hi,
I was pulling my hair out trying to find a answer to my elec. problem when I came across this site. I'm currently living in so. cal. and spend way too much time on my cars, but I just can't put down the wrenches when I'm out in the garage. Married 36 yrs. no kids with this one and we still like each other. I have a 67 mustang fastback almost done. 67 jeep cj5 all restored to original done, but having problems. We have 5 acres in northwest Washington state where we plan to retire very soon. I put up a 40 X 40 metal shop electricity is in water in and a big chunk of change for the septic, but it's in and working. It's nice and quite up there and yes I know it rains alot but we like the cool weather and the rain we don't get down here. So that's about it for the introduce yourself part.

Know for the reason I'm here. I have a 67 Jeep CJ5 V6 ODDFIRE 225 all has been done to the engine. The distributor had a bad vacuum advance so I opt. for thr HEI conversion but the darn thing would fit, well it did fit but I couldn't get much movement on it to time it because advancing it hit the water outlet and retarting it hit the hold down on the cap aginst the head. Anyway I found a replacement distributor from CARDONE through Pep Boys ordered it and install it. Started fine ran good well good for a few miles then the points burned. replaced them and again the pow burnt again. I'm running a ballast resistor. Voltage to the coil is (with key on) 5.85 volts (with it running) 9 volts to the plus side and 3. something on the neg. side going to the distributor. ballast resistor putting out .3 omhs so it sounds to be in the right parameters. I Even replaced the ignition switch thinking there was a short send to much juice to the coil. The oddest thing is that the old distributor worked find the only drawback was the vacuum advance not working giving me bad mpg. Any help or ideas would be greatfully appreciated. Thank Kadar
This is a capacitor problem, it is there to supress arcing when the points open, if it is the wrong capacitance or has simply failed, the engine runs but the points arc and that transfers metal from one contact to the other, you should see a hole in one and a build up on the other.

The voltage on the coil during cranking should be full battery B+ which normally is 12 volts but with the starting motor being a high current circuit; the cranking voltage will fall around 8 to 10 volts. Running should be through the resistor and that should be 6 to 9 volts at the coil. More than that will also burn the points.

With a points ignition the starter switch should never be left in the "run" position with the engine not running because if the points are closed power will flow to ground through the coil and points all the time, this risks cooking the coil. If the points are open then no problem, but who ever checks for this?

The ignition switch controls which voltage under cranking and running goes to the coil. There should be a hot lead from the switch to the coil that is "on" only during cranking. In the "run" position, the hot contact for "start" should be off with the switch now making contact for putting 12 volts into the resistor with 6 to 9 volts from the resistor to the coil.

Some cars use a resistive wire rather than a stand-alone resistor. If your's is like this that wire if you ran it through a stand-alone resistor as well would reduce the voltage too much.

Newer cars since the 1970's using electronic ignitions like HEI have no resistance to the coil or distributor, they apply full battery voltage during cranking and running, these switches may not be compatible with a points ignititon that requires dual voltage paths to support starting and running as seperate voltage functions.

A resistor or resistive wire should not be used with an electronic ignition unless the instructions specifically call for it, a few do but damn few.

Bogie
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Old 04-30-2013, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadar View Post
Thanks everyone for all the input. It was the distributor I bought from Pep Boys. It must of had a short or maybe not grounded well. I got a new vacuum advance canster and installed it into the old distrimutor along with new points & condensor and the jeep runs fine.
I did order the pertonix 1165 and the coil that goes with it. Will istall it this week end and let you know if it made any difference.

Thanks again all Kadar
Thats the kit I'd go with. We don't have pep boys around were but most points you see for see are junk. Even back in the day I would only use Standard and Nieghoff brand ignition parts. I wouldn't walk across the street for part store brand if they were giving them away.
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