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Old 11-25-2008, 02:36 PM
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Baking paint on fiberglass body

I am just about ready to paint my 34 ford. It is fiberglass body. My question is. What is the safe temperature setting I should use for baking the paint on fiberglass?

Milan
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Old 11-25-2008, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msford34
I am just about ready to paint my 34 ford. It is fiberglass body. My question is. What is the safe temperature setting I should use for baking the paint on fiberglass?

Milan
Never heard of that, you could get lots of unexpected movement. I would recommend putting some sun on it before you paint otherwise you might get lots of print through if you just apply the heat afterwards.

When I put my gloss black FG body in the sun it got up to 170F in places.
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Old 11-25-2008, 07:15 PM
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Fiberglass cures to the highest temperature it is exposed to (within reason). Baking a freshly painted glass car is a cra$shoot IMHO. I would not do it, there is too much chance on the body surface changing. Some will counter and say well sunlight heats the body. If it were mine and I was intent on baking the paint on, I would not bake it at as high a temp as a steel body and I would watch it very closely. I'm kinda curious, why do you feel you need to bake it?

Vince
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Old 11-25-2008, 07:16 PM
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The first reply brings up a very valid point. Did you "bake" the body in the sun for a week or so before you started body work on it?

Vince
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Old 11-25-2008, 07:24 PM
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Most paints bake at around 140 degrees and you won't have any problems, vette's have been baked for years without problems. Typical bake cycle is 140 degrees for 20-30 minutes then a cool down, then repeat if you want to cycle it more. And it is a good idea to set your glass parts in the sun for awhile if they're fresh out of the mold before you start working on them.
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Old 11-25-2008, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baddbob
Most paints bake at around 140 degrees and you won't have any problems, vette's have been baked for years without problems. Typical bake cycle is 140 degrees for 20-30 minutes then a cool down, then repeat if you want to cycle it more. And it is a good idea to set your glass parts in the sun for awhile if they're fresh out of the mold before you start working on them.
Do they bake it to cure the fg (and then paint afterwards) or to cure the paint?
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Old 11-25-2008, 07:41 PM
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Heat cycling the new bare glass also helps to get the vapors out, letting it set in the sun for a week like Vince mentioned will cycle it quite a few times. One of the best things you can do with glass after the major tuning has been done is to coat it inside and out with a quality epoxy primer just to seal it and keep it stable so the deterioration doesn't start.
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Old 11-25-2008, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baddbob
Heat cycling the new bare glass also helps to get the vapors out, letting it set in the sun for a week like Vince mentioned will cycle it quite a few times. One of the best things you can do with glass after the major tuning has been done is to coat it inside and out with a quality epoxy primer just to seal it and keep it stable so the deterioration doesn't start.
Not really following you. I am aware of the need to bring any fg to the highest temp it will normally see in daily life to fully cure it as I recommended in my first post. The OP seems to think the PAINT should be baked on. You said the vettes were baked and I wondered if that was done to cure the paint or the 'glass.

By the way what deterioration would epoxy primer prevent?
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Old 11-25-2008, 09:18 PM
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Bob, we recently toured the Vette factory and I saw no baking, only a paint facility and drying room. FWIW the paint on the new Vettes is atrocious.

Vince
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Old 11-25-2008, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scrimshaw
By the way what deterioration would epoxy primer prevent?
The epoxy stops the "outgassing" of the resin. and also prevents anything from attacking the back side of the glass.

Look at the link in my sig, I built a glass 34 and I did not bake the paint. The paint is now over two years old and looks great. Modern refinish materials do not need baking. PPG and others have base and clears formulated to preclude the need for baking.

Vince
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Old 11-25-2008, 09:35 PM
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Let's be honest, 140 degrees isn't "baking" at all, it is force drying. What the factory does to "bake" paint is much higher, If forget the temp, but a heck of a lot higher than 140.

Heck, your glass car will get 140 in the sun in Tucson AZ in July.

Brian
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Old 11-25-2008, 10:24 PM
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Cheap resin will soften with a lower temp than good quality resin. Tooling resin, (isopthalic), and vinyl ester resin will take about 180-200*F, but no one uses that either. Wescotts uses iso resin, and maybe some others. Although epoxy resin is best, no one that I know uses it to make a fiberglass body.

Like Scrimshaw and MARTINSR said, a car's surface will attain very high temps in the sun, especially if the color is a dark one. I measured 145* on a black steel car in the sun on a 112*. That will bake your paint for sure.

I've seen cars laid up with cheap resin start to move around,(ripples and panel shape changes as well), at less than 100* F ambient temp, when parked in the sun.

I would follow others advice, park the car in the sun for as long as you can stand it, let it cycle and normalize. Then do your final blocking and paint.

I would not force cure any paint on 'glass. Too much chance of hot spots.

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Old 11-26-2008, 04:47 AM
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I agree that heat needs to be applied before any paint and that corvettes have possibly the worst paint jobs on a factory car.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 302 Z28
The epoxy stops the "outgassing" of the resin. and also prevents anything from attacking the back side of the glass.

Vince
I have never heard of 'protecting' (from what?) the inside of any fiberglass in twenty years of working on fiberglass boats, whether it's made of polyester, vinylester or epoxy resin, even though that environment is much harsher than a car. I can't see any reason to put epoxy primer on fiberglass unless you want to paint over it. (I used Duratec under my car but purely for cosmetic reasons). As for the outside you are better off leaving it in gel-coat (if it has any) than just putting primer on it. I would also say that all 'outgassing' if by this you mean post-curing should be done before any kind of coating is applied. All solvents should be allowed to evaporate before primer.

I agree with powerrodsmike that the cheap resin moves alot more, but would also add that even epoxy resin which is the best structurally is also prone to bad print through in the sun as I found out with the car in my journal. After many hours of finishing once the black paint was on it reached 170F in the sun and I had lots of print through which I am still dealing with. Most of the car is made from epoxy. I have since found out that West System now sells a special high-temp epoxy resin which has a much higher temp resistance to prevent this.
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Old 11-26-2008, 07:12 AM
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Baking

When I was a kid my Dad would take his 55 Ford to Earl Shibe once a year and get one of their $29.95 Baked on paint jobs.
I remember being amazed at the guy showing me this tunnel looking thing...which was probably a Quanset Hut, and the whole inside was lined with light bulbs....I guess the were heat lamps.
That was good old single stage enamel though, and they could get high volume
work flow becasue they could paint em....bake em....and roll em out the door into a rain storm in a day.......LOL
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Old 11-26-2008, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CustomConspiracy
When I was a kid my Dad would take his 55 Ford to Earl Shibe once a year and get one of their $29.95 Baked on paint jobs.
I remember being amazed at the guy showing me this tunnel looking thing...which was probably a Quanset Hut, and the whole inside was lined with light bulbs....I guess the were heat lamps.
That was good old single stage enamel though, and they could get high volume
work flow becasue they could paint em....bake em....and roll em out the door into a rain storm in a day.......LOL
Again, the "McPaint" shops have called this "Baking" for years and it just isn't so. It is "forced drying" that is all it is.

Brian
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