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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 12-20-2004, 08:53 AM
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Re: Hey Barry,

Quote:
Originally posted by red65mustang
Thought up an easy "real world" test for you to prove epoxy/filler is better than sanded steel/filler.

Make 2 steel mudflaps, do one with, one without, post the results on your web site after ? miles.

That's what I'm looking for, better impact resistance, gladly put a skim coat of filler on the epoxy on the front valance, lower rear qtrs, etc.
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
65,
There really is no reason.
This over the years has been tested and retested to death.
This is not new ground or a new Idea at all.
This has been done since the early 70's.
A pretty safe statement to make is, if you find a full time restorer or rod builder of quality this is their process.
Rarely do I go into one that does not apply the epoxy first.

That panel test gives you adhesion, flexibility and impact tests all in one.

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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 12-21-2004, 06:33 PM
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bare metal

just thought i'd add that i have been panel/painting for around 20 years and when i was first taught we were told to remove all the paint prior to using body filler and i did this for years without too many problems. Last year i did a refresher course and was told that we no longer remove the paint if filling a dent, just rough it up with 80 grit and feather the edges and fill over the paint; the reason being that when you remove all the paint and fill over steel there are too many oportunities for moisture and grease to get onto the bare steel.
and If you are doing a bare steel job then do use an etch primer first and then fill over that; and as stated an epoxy 2 pac primer is the best way to go.
Occasionally and normally on jap cars you will see a rusted area by the door handle or maybe in the middle of a panel, they reckon the reason is because this area was repaired after the car had been acid dipped and etched but prior to the topcoat at the factory.
I also wash all bare metal repair with phosphating acid (normally sold as 'Metal Conditioner" or similar which is washed off with water, allowed to dry and then the etch primer goes on.
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 01-05-2005, 08:26 PM
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Wink

Quote:
Originally posted by hemi43
Excellent reading on epoxy primer. My question is about the metal prep you all use. It clearly states that you must rinse off the prep after working it into the metal, but my problem is that when I'm doing a large panel (like a fender), the panel gets flash rust instantly after rinsing, What's the secret?? I have tried Dupon't product, Por-15's as well as others, and I always have problems. Thanks. Dan
Iíve always wondered this my self. How do you rinse the panel off with water and keep it from flash rusting!
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Old 01-06-2005, 12:21 PM
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flash rust

yes, i have the same problem and there is nothing you can do about it. I asked this question of the tutor and he suggested that the steel is allowed to dry naturally in the sun or by heat lamp don't blow it off with compressed air as there may be minute oil particules in it, he also suggested washing it with the Metal Prep more than once but i still get the flash rust after following these suggestions; it doesn't seem to be a problem as most etch primers have an oxide in them to counteract this.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 01-06-2005, 01:13 PM
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Iím NJ and it can be pretty humid here at times. I had stripped a portion of the B pillar on my Mustang coupe sitting for about a year now and there is no flash rust on it so the oil thing might be true. Iím sure if I touched it at all with my bare hands it would only be a matter of time before the rust started. Iíll have to see next time I do the rise if the flash rust is worst if there is some breeze.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2005, 06:15 PM
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BODYWORK CONCERNS

OK, guys, this is new territory for me too. Have you ever heard of treating bare metal with a phosphate wash before mud or primer? I have D.P'ed (epoxy etched) all raw surfaces first, then after metalworking back to bare again, I touched up the area with a wipe/wash that makes the surface etched. Also what about using a fiberglass filler? Are they truly waterproof as I have been told?
I also have been instructed to use a primer/sealer over all finished bodywork-?
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Old 01-23-2005, 06:24 PM
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phospating acid

phospating acid is normally called MetalPrep or other brand names so yes, it is refered to in the aforementioned submissions.
Yes fibreglass fillers are waterproof and yes us the primer sealer after completion of bodywork
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Old 01-23-2005, 07:00 PM
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Thanks for the re-affirmation! Its nice to have with all the time, effort and bucks that go into the machine of your choice. I have a friend who mixes different muds together to get a smooth surface. Would that not ruin the effects of a fiberglass filler? Others probably not, eh.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2005, 08:05 PM
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Re: phospating acid

Quote:
Originally posted by Mr Ed

Yes fibreglass fillers are waterproof and yes us the primer sealer after completion of bodywork

"Fiberglass fillers" are NOT waterproof. They may and I mean MAY be water "resistant" but they are certainly not "water proof". I called Evercoat tech after this was brought up on another forum a few years ago. I was told it was "water proof"
ONLY after it was primed and painted! I laughed and said, "Cardboard is waterproof if it is coated with primer and paint!". All the fiberglass reinforced fillers like "Everglass", "Kitty hair" and the like have talc in them, just like "regular" filler in fact, they have MORE. Talc absorbs moisture. So, no, they are NOT waterproof.
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Old 01-23-2005, 10:13 PM
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Wow. How about Duraglass? Sure has a lot of substance to it in comparison. I'm still going to 'primer seal' everything anyway. Now here's a question: what about down at the lowest edge, where, let's say the BCCC ends and the wheel well starts with maybe undercoat? Does this edge become a weak link to moisture blockage? Any suggestions here?
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Old 01-23-2005, 10:42 PM
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I have never checked the MSDS for Duraglass but I suspect you would find simlar ingredients including talc. USC Duraglass and the Evercoat products I mentioned are extremely similar products.

As far as the bottom of the quarters or around the lip of the wheel well, prime and paint it. Simply get around the edge with properly applied primer, paint and clear. That is a HUGE pet peeve of mine, having edges bare! ARRRRRRGGG I hate that.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2005, 02:00 PM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by MARTINSR
[B]I have never checked the MSDS for Duraglass but I suspect you would find simlar ingredients including talc. USC Duraglass and the Evercoat products I mentioned are extremely similar products.
QUOTE]
*********************************************

Exactly right!
Everyone of these products are almost identical and not water proof, including All-metal and Alumifil all polyesters with lots-o-talc.
By the way the white and blue hardener you use with this stuff is the EXACTLT the same thing as your body filler hardener with a dye in it.
All peroxide filler hardener's are made by catalyst systems in Ohio.

Oh, you will hear how ours has 1 or 2% more peroxide in it,
Yep! Right!
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2005, 05:18 PM
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Heck Brian you dont need the MSDS, look on the can!
A few years ago there was a fight on the chevelle site about Duraglass being water proof.
One thing I learned as a small child, you dont pick fights you cant win.
So the next day I bought a can of Duraglass, took a pic of the label and posted it on chevelles. Low and behold TALC is the MAIN active ingredient. Score one for Eric
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old 01-24-2005, 05:30 PM
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epoxy

Apologies folks, agreed; fibreglass fillers are not waterproof, i was more refering towards the epoxy fibreglass repair kits such as used with the fibre matting and 2 pot resins for repairing fibreglass car bodies and boats- i think these are waterproof as i have filled some holes in hulls without topcoating them immediately before they went back in the water and didn't have any probs. For steel panel work i normally use standard body filler which definitely ain't waterproof and becuase we have a wet climate here i often put a coat of laquer over the primer if the area is not to be painted straight away to keep the repair dry.
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Old 02-06-2005, 08:06 AM
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interesting

Last edited by baddbob; 02-06-2005 at 08:26 AM.
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