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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 11-05-2005, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red65mustang

We are digressing way far from the original EPA question...start a new thread in the lounge?

************************************************
Sorry, I thought I was giving some history behind why the EPA has this in their hands. When city bus gives off more pollution in 5 minutes if on diesel
than a do it your selfer can in a year or two of painting.

Sometimes people do not want to know because it make them feel bad.

I have no interest in the lounge so I will stop right now as I did not mean to take away from the post.

I will go back and delete my posts so I don't distract.

My mistake.

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Last edited by BarryK; 11-05-2005 at 03:03 PM.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 11-05-2005, 02:56 PM
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dinger, no bad words from me....and lets get back to the much more fun EPA and politics discussion.....

Nightmare possibilities: only way to enforce a "methods" law (like paint gun clean up) is to have a Federal inspector onsite,.....or track and prove solvents purchased/solvents recovered...or have an hours meter on your HVLP gun and record hours for each job to prove you used it....and remember, so far they are only "researching" what they can do

gee! ain't gov't wonderful

It could make sense to have a local city license law (LA?), makes no sense as a Fed law

Barry, your bus pollution example is the truth...but....that is a gov't owned vehicle that can't make campaign contributions for 20+ years!

Last edited by red65mustang; 11-05-2005 at 03:04 PM.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 11-05-2005, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
I will go back and delete my posts so I don't distract.
No distractions here, I find it all related and very interesting. Government regs may affect all of us in the hobby, it is better to be informed than in the dark. Dan
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 11-05-2005, 03:31 PM
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What is going on here?

This is a very important thread to the "Body - Exterior" forum.
Every post here had very relevent information for this forum and was not inappropriate at all.
I appreciate all of Barry's comments here and am disappointed at what has happened.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2005, 04:56 AM
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sorry Roger1,dinger

just seemed that Barry (and I) were discussing marketing methods, not laws and EPA and proper gun cleaning

Barry, put your comments back in.....

Last edited by red65mustang; 11-06-2005 at 08:32 AM.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2005, 07:27 AM
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Why are stockholders (i.i., corporate profits) always depicted as "greedy"? The majority of stockholders nowadays are 401K grunts like you and me. If you still have a retirement pension (union job? Company that has a pension?), I guarantee they are betting your future on the stock market. All the above (including me) are investing in our retirement future. I/we don't want to be beholding to the Big Brother Federal Government for or welfare with their gracious $1500/month check from SSI in exchange for the $millions we would have earned if they hadn't stolen 15% of our income and used it fr their re-election campaigns.

Unless you are a flat out communist, you invest your 401K in stocks that will give you the best possible return and grow your retirement account the fastest you can. If you have a stock in your portfolio that isn't growing as robustly as you desire, you divest and reinvest in the one that will give a good dividend and grow at a reasonable rate. Your future depends on it. I guess that makes YOU the ultimate greedy one doesn't it!
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2005, 08:31 AM
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Willy's, it was Kenseth17 who called it "greed", I do agree with all that you wrote
I'm gona delete that comment
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2005, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grouch

(But I will be watching the evil, oily willys36 verrrry closely between now and 2011. He's bound to figure out some way to slip a ringer into the rule that requires everyone to buy his Wily Willys Super Garden Hose Bottled Water [pat. pend., tm, sm, C] in order to be certified to paint.)
I don't get it....
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2005, 08:16 PM
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We are mixing threads. I threatened in another thread to quit the oil business and start a designer bottled water company where the REAL profits are and zero risk.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2005, 08:42 PM
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yeah but I don't have to buy bottled water. Paint and oil I do. A lot more money goes towards both of these then in the past. These have both gone up, but a lot of people have lost jobs are taken a cut in pay over the last few years. I am sorry if I personally offended anyone. But if someone can produce a product that is equal to another one at a lower cost, I guess I am going to buy the one that is lower cost. When all in competition raise thier prices substantially to around the same price and thier is no lower priced competition to keep the cost down, I don't know what to call that. I realize that government regulations has a part in it too. I am getting off topic here.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2005, 08:58 PM
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We here in California have been living with this "sky is falling" stuff since the clean air act in 1993.
Here it is in a nutshell, things change, we have met the challenges, that is all there is to it.

We all thought that this would have been implemented by 95, then 97, then 99......

During that time we learned, we learned hard lessons with the first junk HVLP guns, the first junk low VOC products, the junk waterborne, and on and on. The manufacturers have come up with products to meet the challenges. The HVLP and low VOC high solids of today are a dream to work with. The waterborne colors that are out by some of the manufacturers from what I understand are super nice.

What will happen before anything will be "prohibition of manufacture". The non-compliant products will be phased out and eliminated and new ones will replace them.

I just saw some PCL waterborne primer rolled on with a roller at NACE, it looked like it was sprayed!

IF, and this is a BIG IF, the home hobbiest looses the ability to buy the paint, he will work around it. If he can build a car from the frame up, he'll find a way to get the thing painted.

Brian
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2005, 09:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
[...snipped...]
I just saw some PCL waterborne primer rolled on with a roller at NACE, it looked like it was sprayed!

IF, and this is a BIG IF, the home hobbiest looses the ability to buy the paint, he will work around it. If he can build a car from the frame up, he'll find a way to get the thing painted.
That rollable primer sounds interesting. They're probably working on getting a topcoat (or bc/cc) to be rollable, too. Thickness, consistency and flatness of the coating are problems that come to my (non-pro) mind.

Maybe somebody will come up with a way to cook a coating onto a car in the home garage to produce lower emissions than spraying.

This rule threat could provide some incentive to make paints less dangerous to those who work with them every day. I remember reading some pretty scary stuff while researching what kind of protection to get before painting -- career painters being sensitized, carrying O2 tanks around, and worse.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 11-07-2005, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenseth17
When all in competition raise thier prices substantially to around the same price and thier is no lower priced competition to keep the cost down, I don't know what to call that.
We all know what to call that, A monopoly!
(that's illegal in this country, LOL)
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 11-07-2005, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcclark
We all know what to call that, A monopoly!
(that's illegal in this country, LOL)
Without getting flamed for being off post, just want to say every bit of that price fixing lawsuit and the EPA its all related.

By the way last I paid attention to the price fixing suit, last year one company offered to settle for 24 million and judge killed that idea.

The company that offered that amount has about 3-5% market share so you do the math if another company has 50% market share and what that will cost them!

This is one big web and its all related.

There is a reason for everything and the EPA did not just wake up one morning and say "Lets kill the do-it yourselfers and small body shops".

Edit:
One other thing,
This is not about pollution. If you spray a 4.2 voc product (4.2lbs per gallon) and a dealer with an $80,000 spray booth sprays the same gallon. Does he pollute less?
The only difference is he has an exhaust filter to collect the hard or solid exhaust but filters do not collect the 4.2 LBS of voc's. (they evaporate)

Last edited by BarryK; 11-07-2005 at 07:04 AM.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 11-07-2005, 07:59 AM
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Well, maybe spraying is polluting so we won't be able to buy paint to spray.
Maybe some companies will sell car paint to "roll on"
That would be environmentally safe? no?
Well if so, I'll get "rollerable" paint.
And I'll agree not to spray it, but what really happens in the
"real world" well, you know.

Right now my county regulations are to use low voc materials,
Some stores req'd you to sign a statement for higher voc matl's,
that you weren't going to use it in this county, what a joke!!!
If the goverment gets into it it'll never work, just to many loopholes
and outside sources. I know one supplier that moved outside of my
county just so he could continue to sell to the hobbiest.
All car paint is labeled "for professional use only" and not suppose
to be available to the general public. Right.
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