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Old 11-04-2005, 03:10 PM
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Barry K and MartinSR your comments please

Just read this and wondered what you guys think about it. Sure doesn't sound good for the do-it-yourself'ers.

EPA Proposed Rule

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Old 11-04-2005, 03:32 PM
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I agree it does not look good for the do it your selfer.

Perhaps by the time this rule "if it gets made law" comes around
there will be a good supply choice of water based paint, similar
to what europe has been using for many years in its body shops.

Speaking of water based automotive paint has anyone used BASF.

Thanks.... X.
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Old 11-04-2005, 05:13 PM
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Those kind of rules!!!

Basically that will put a lot of the independent shops out of business..I have been seeing that sort of thing going on for a long time until the point is being reached where there are very few places left where the consumer can get their car fixed..Most of the small shops are closing and not being replaced around here..Those that are still operating are run by old-timers who when they retire will not be keeping the shop open..

Another blow to the economy..!!!!

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Old 11-04-2005, 05:18 PM
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Old 11-04-2005, 05:59 PM
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2011 is plenty of time for some less hazardous paint system to come to market. Since the primary goal seems to be levelling the playing field for commercial collision repair shops, the restrictions that do-it-yourselfers might face could just be how much paint we could buy. Lower quantities *would* deal with the number of poodles and stray cats that get mutated when we spray. Naturally, folks with close neighbors are more likely to get complaints. Just seems 'way too early to get worked up over.
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Old 11-04-2005, 06:41 PM
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Old 11-04-2005, 06:44 PM
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It's all Dick Cheney, Halliburton and the dirty oil companies faults.
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Old 11-04-2005, 07:30 PM
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Wow! This is scary.
I hope road blocks keep it from passing.
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Old 11-04-2005, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryK
Grouch,

You missed the point. This is a law to restrict all paint products to non certified shops.

Will not matter if a no VOC is available or not.

I remember when this was first proposed in the 80"s, talk about a panic!

Remember, pot is illegal also.
I don't see where I missed the point. The article talks about shops, I talked about shops, you talked about shops.

As for the VOC, that's where the EPA comes in. Those shops that are having to comply with regulations have complained to the EPA about the ones that do not have to comply. If we were talking about non-hazardous materials, that is, things which do not threaten the environment, then the EPA would not be involved.

I don't know what pot has to do with it at all.

From the article:
Quote:
Teal and her colleagues have been busy visiting shops and gathering data as they prepare to write a proposed rule by 2007. Full implementation of the rule is targeted for August 2011.

Feedback, thus far, has helped the EPA identify a frustrated base of shop owners who are eager to put an end to unsafe and environmentally damaging painting practices performed by some shops and do-it-yourself mechanics.
Note the date and the phrase, "environmentally damaging painting practices". Remove the damaging practices and you remove the influence of the rule. That means either certification or a paint system that is less hazardous.

You might want to re-read the last paragraph of the article, too:
Quote:
Although the final language is far from settled, the national rule will supercede any state rules shops face related to refinish process compliance. However, in states such as California, where automotive refinish regulations match or exceed the EPA’s final language, Teal does not foresee a need for shops to jump through additional hoops to become certified to be compliant with the national rule.
Again, we see "shops". Can a do-it-yourselfer buy paint in California now? If they can and California's "automotive refinish regulations match or exceed the EPA's final language", then why should we expect the creation of this national rule to suddenly be the death knell of do-it-yourself painting?

I still don't see any reason to get worked up over it yet.

(But I will be watching the evil, oily willys36 verrrry closely between now and 2011. He's bound to figure out some way to slip a ringer into the rule that requires everyone to buy his Wily Willys Super Garden Hose Bottled Water [pat. pend., tm, sm, C] in order to be certified to paint.)
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Old 11-04-2005, 08:27 PM
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POT???? Did someone mention POT??? are they trying to make pot illegal too???? HUMMMMM!!!
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Old 11-04-2005, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willys36@aol.com
It's all Dick Cheney, Halliburton and the dirty oil companies faults.
NO, NO, NO !!! It's FEMA's fault!
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Old 11-04-2005, 08:35 PM
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Old 11-04-2005, 09:21 PM
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The way that I see it, it is the big guys trying to snuff out the little guys as much as anything. If they can get the government to put these restrictions on the little guy, he will have to close up, as he can't afford it anymore.

I don't see it happening anytime soon. Too much tax money lost. The bigger guys will not be paying as much in taxes as the little guys that they are trying to snuff out. There is also the tax money that they would loose from the DIY.
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Old 11-04-2005, 09:26 PM
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Old 11-04-2005, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryK
Your confused and really have no clue why this is coming about or from who and why.
Care to explain how you come to that conclusion?

It's pretty well spelled out in the linked article. The EPA wants to cut emissions. That's one of their reasons for existence. The complaints, from big shops that are having to comply with "state and local regulations", about little shops and people "spraying paint at home in their garages at night" give them the excuse to pursue it. Shops paying to be in compliance don't like the fact that others don't pay. I don't see any hard data on emissions that show whether the complaint is legitimate, just belly-aching, or a ploy to limit competition. The "level playing field" comment is the only hint, but it could be read either way. The dates given leave room for things to change completely. I won't worry about it until much closer to the deadline, but then, I'm not in the paint or painting business. None of the interests involved give a s**t what I say, as you just proved.

Sorry if my "clips" offend you, but you seemed to find my first comments lacking. I tried to cite the parts of the article that supported those comments.
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