Barryk has been suspended for 2 weeks. The abusive nature, foul language and name calling are against forum guidelines and detrimental to the members of this website.
He has been warned in the past, this incident has been discussed in the Moderaters forum, Barry has been an asset to this site but his behavior will not be tolerated.
That's too bad, I haven't been following the post but it did look like Barry went a little overboard. But why are you posting that he got suspended? Is that HR.com policy to make a new post everytime some one gets suspended?
Well I think what we actually screwed up on was not doing this sooner. Barry is well-liked by a lot of members and really knows his stuff. Unfortunately I think that is why he has been overlooked for this sort of thing.
This thread just exists to be out in the open about our actions as moderators. Think of what the alternative would be, just Barry disappears for two weeks, nobody knows what's going on, he's not responding to threads etc.
There are very few things that are specifically mentioned in our guidelines, but foul language and being polite with other members are two of them. In this case its important to treat everybody the same, so that the next person who gets warned or suspended doesn't come back and say "hey Barry gets away with it!"
So this is an attempt to be fair and keep things out in the open-
I read selected posts in the thread that started this.
First, I don't agree with BarryK's position on the subject. I realize I am going off topic, but I feel I need to explain. When you have a 60 year old car from the rust belt, if you take BarryK's position to the extreme, you will be cutting out all the spot welds and reducing the body to individual pieces so all of the rust can be removed before welding it all back together. Most of us can't or won't do this, particularly when it will make the car last until well after we are dead and gone. Products like POR15 have their place. Barry and Shine and I will just have to agree to disagree.
That being said, if BarryK got suspended for his posts, there are others who should be suspended as well. I won't name names, but if you read the posts IN THE ORDER THEY WERE POSTED, you will get the idea.
That being said, if BarryK got suspended for his posts, there are others who should be suspended as well. I won't name names, but if you read the posts IN THE ORDER THEY WERE POSTED, you will get the idea.
RedsDad, you are so right. I've seen posts from moderators that are crossing the line as well. There was no need to make it public. It will be interesting to see if Barry comes back after this public whoopin' - if he doesn't then we have suffered a considerable loss. Barry may have stepped over as well, but moderators need to be above it all by handling these issues behind the scenes, taking a higher road, and not be so quick to publicly retaliate. Just poor judgement in this case.
I thought I would put my 2 cents in on this. There is no reason to ever be ugly and disrespectful to anyone. We are all adults. BUT....I have read the posts and...One of the reasons I don't come here to often anymore is because everybody seems to be an expert on here and those that really do know their stuff get talked to like they are stupid when they try to help someone. It has happened to me many times. And yes I did get upset..I never took it as far a BarryK did. And he was wrong for that. I am a professional Painter and Body tech and I can say BarryK knows his stuff...
As far as the Mods go I wont say any names and point fingers but some do act like they are the gods of rodding and their beliefs are the only way to go. There is a right way and a wrong way to do things...BUT their may be 20 differnt ways to get to the right way. Anyway, I don't think being ugly is the correct way to hand things but I can surely under stand how it got to that point. JMO. Tim
I don't see the point of this thread other than a personal grudge. What Barryk did was wrong but he does not need to be dragged though the mud with this thread. This thread should be locked and sent to the dump.
That's too bad, I haven't been following the post but it did look like Barry went a little overboard. But why are you posting that he got suspended? Is that HR.com policy to make a new post everytime some one gets suspended?
Suspensions used to be posted in the lounge every time an established member was suspended. It is not to drag their name through the mud, but to open a discussion, if needed, as to why the member was suspended. This also keeps everything above board, nothing sneaky is going on in the background. And as Killerformula stated, this should have been done earlier. We, as Mods, have been lax in some of our duties. All suspensions should be public, and we have been a bit lax on abusive members. I, for one, try to use a little humor too much to defuse or overlook too many things that I shouldn't be overlooking.
We have a large community of members here, we have very few suspensions for a community this large. We try to be fair in any decisions made, this decision has been discussed in the mod forum in great detail.
In order to keep this site friendly to all that come here, we can't have members belittling folks that have an honest question to be answered. We're all newbies at one time or another.
And from myself, a big thank you to the members that take the time to help out. :thumbup:
This subject has been tossed around and over-discussed in the moderator forum for quite a while now, and the decision was made to do the dirty deed AND make it publicly known, problems with this decision should be directed towards Jon, Hotrodders Administrator.
I personally made no decision either way, as I do not frequent the Lounge forum.
This is not a new thing, nor is it outside of the rules. It is actually a standard procedure, although it is one that has not been used as much as it should be.
Those were found just by using a standard search, using "suspended" as the keyword, and confining the search to the lounge.
If BarryK could limit himself to replying to other members in a respectful fashion, this would not have happened. His knowledge of paint is appreciated, his disrespect for others is not. This was discussed for quite some time among the moderators, and his suspension was not the result of a "grudge" by one or 2 moderators.
I would agree with mikey and reiterate that this thread is in no way meant to be a venue to "talk negative" about anybody behind their back. The only things that have been addressed are statements of fact about policy breaches and how we have addressed them.
Its also appropriate to point out that given this is an online forum there are only so many ways of doing this sort of thing. This is the most up-front way of conducting business. Think of the alternatives and their consequences.
No amount of justification or posts is going to make everybody OK with this; we understand that. The only thing I can say is take a look at the guidelines and our history in dealing with situations like this. This fits right in with with how every other situation such as this has been handled in the past.
it's YOUR sarcastic post #44 that includes a entire line of profanities directed at Barry that he responded to in post #47...
"After" OneMoreTime had warned everyone "cool your jets" because everyone was being sarcastic and mildly insulting trying to make a point,,,rehashing the same info for the 1,000th time....
it is YOUR behavior that is truly disgusting!!!!
YOU don't own this site!!!!
who in the hell gave you the right to publically list Barry's suspension with this thread?????
Please re read the post. Dinger never directed them at Barry. It was directed at the self proclaimed pros who refuse to acknowledge any type of alternate coating or preparation method other than to try to discredit and belittle anyone who posts such methods.
YOU don't own this site!!!!
who in the hell gave you the right to publically list Barry's suspension?????
This is a standard procedure, previous examples as shown in my last post. The procedure regarding a posting like this one is clearly stated in the moderators guidelines.
if I don't see an apology from you and 4jaw (who did the same public notice on the actual thread) to Barry and action by Jon I am out of here...
Post #44, I tried to use a little humor to make a point. If that offended you, I am sorry. I did notice, however, that I think Barry got the point, he edited his original post to delete his wording about 'going and fornicating myself'. And the point I was trying to make, we all have opinions, what makes one mans' opinion the most worthy opinion? Why use profanity when you don't agree with a person? There has been a history of this abuse from Barry, it is totally uncalled for. Personally, when I se profanity as used in that post, I think it's childish and silly, which I tried to show in my post, using upper case symbols, just like the comic books.
No one held a gun to his head and made him go off on our members as he has done in the past. It is really not that hard to RESPECTFULLY disagree with a person. If a person can't control his temper, sometimes a step backward until the head clears up ain't a bad thing, been there, done that.
And with that being said, I expect some collateral damage from the barry buds, This has been discussed to death in the mod forum, I feel no apology necessary other than the one I made earlier.
In order to keep this site friendly to all that come here, we can't have members belittling folks that have an honest question to be answered. We're all newbies at one time or another.
Unfortunately, this type of action is necessary to maintain discipline and order on a forum. I have been a part of bashing on other forums where it escalates to the point of the moderators and administrator joining in on it. And those forums are now, so disorderly and unhelpful for those who truly try to use them to learn, that it is chaos. No one likes to have to enforce and police rules because it makes them look like the bad guys at times, so maybe afterwards he will return and get on with his contributions....
mikey,
go back and open your suspension links...
"Jon" posted those threads!!!!
He has the right to make anything public....
dinger,
your post expletive lines read as a blatant smart-arse insult period...
Barry wrote in a form that would get past the censor so the reply meaning is clear...
mikey,
go back and open your suspension links...
"Jon" posted those threads!!!!
He has the right to make anything public....
dinger,
your post expletive lines read as a blatant smart-arse insult period...
Barry wrote in a form that would get past the censor so the reply meaning is clear...
I know that Jon posted 4 out of the 5 those that I linked to, Centerline posted one as well... and it is stated in our moderators guidelines that we, as moderators, are also allowed to do that.
You can do a search yourself, using the parameters I gave in that post, and find more of the exact same kind of thread, posted by other moderators.
You yourself could fill out an application to become a mod, if you got chosen to be a moderator then you could see that actions like this are not spontanious kneejerk reactions by one mod acting out of some kind of anger.
It seems like painters have these feuds with each other, and take it around the web from site to site. Personally, I'm not down with that because the web should be a place where we all share information for everybody's benefit. That's how I use it anyway.
It's OK to disagree, and it's OK to call out incorrect, misleading or biased information, but we need to do it respectfully. I have seen dopey ametuers trying to push their slipshod methods over tried and true methods plenty of times, and I have seen professionals scoff at anything that they didn't learn in school or at the shop. One dude, a professional painter by trade, laughed at us for doing flow coats, like it's not in the Official Manual so it's bunk and we're idiots for doing it. But you know what, I think he's crazy, because bottom line, flow coats work and produce superior results. Now this guy did great work and provided a lot of valuable information, and personally I liked him. He ended up leaving in disgust because everybody didn't see things his way.
I hope I can find a place to go to get real deal paint advice. I have a lot to learn, and I have a lot to contribute too, but I can't step into the shoes of a seasoned veteran and dispense information and share experience like he could. On the contrary, I need guidance like that, still.
I have had many battles of the subject of "wrong information" on forums for years. This is one subject that is well, "subjective". There are a LOT of ideas, and "right" ways to do things. I personally see few "WRONG" ways posted. There are a few, sure, but not as many as there are people who think they have the ONLY way.
I also have seen many people who only want to fight call something someone suggests as "bull headed" when it was only HIS opinion and nothing more.
The point that really makes me laugh is the people who think that every single thread should be about doing it the best way and nothing less, be-damned if 99% of the people reading it could never achieve that perfection!
Telling someone how they can cast their own motor in their garage and telling everyone who isn't capable of that they are "hacks" isn't going to help a whole lot of people. For those who can't cast our own motors, there are MANY options that should be explored that are "right" enough, they may not be as good as being able to cast our own motor, but damn it, they work for 99% of us!
Not everyone has the skills, the time to learn them, or the tools to cast a friggin motor in their garage, get off your high horse and tell them how they can repair the one they have! Or at the very least, let others tell them and go to your cast your own motor forum and climb up on your high horse and profess your word.
The sad part is, having a thread on casting your own motor would be great to have around. If on the forum are people wanting to JB weld a flange back on, so be it, on that same forum there can be both the "what rebuild in a can oil additive do you recommend" and "How to cast a motor in your garage" can live side by side! The READER can choose which one to read.
Brian
The characters, names and subjects in this post are not based on anyone or thing. Any similarity's to any actual posts or forums is a coincidence.
MartinSr, You of course have very valid points and what you are saying is often the case but the problem usually starts when someone gives mis-leading and/or possibly damaging advice and insists, in spite of expert opinion and evidence to the contrary, that it is a perfectly acceptable thing to do. Unfortunately this happens often and the guys with a truly educated opinion find themselves being slammed and called ignorant, stubborn, etc by people who are obvious amateurs when actually they are trying to prevent someone from making a serious mistake. After dealing with this sort of thing on almost a daily basis it then becomes easy to become frustrated in a disagreement even when it involves people who are equally qualified but with differing opinions. When a new guy asks advice about how to deal with rust for instance there are going to be several conflicting opinions ranging from "cut it out" to "just convert it" and both sides could have valid reasons for doing it their way, it will be up to the guy who asked to make his own decision. If all he heard was "cut it out" or "convert it" instead of hearing both sides then his question was not truly answered but even if a disagreement happens (especially if a disagreement happens) the info will come out and the pros and cons will be discussed, BUT the problem is when this disagreement degrades into a name calling argument. Even strong disagreements can be beneficial as long as they are kept civilized which I think would be more the rule than the exception if it was only between experienced people. Everyone should be allowed to state their opinion on most any subject but honestly should a thirty year veteran of custom Auto Body and Paint have to endure being called stubborn and unfair because he disputes unconventional and possibly damaging advice given by an obvious amateur? Sure if the "amateur" is talking about a truly new product or procedure that we don't know about then he should definitly be allowed to freely discuss it to his hearts content. However when they bring up old tech or products (or something totally "off the wall" that obviously is non-sense or even damaging) that has been rehashed time and again and want to argue with or insult experienced professionals then it gets discouraging in a hurry, this is what often leads to the name calling and hard feelings.
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