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  #61 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2012, 05:42 PM
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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
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You are right on the money Mr. Widetrack (or can I call you 69? ) what you explained is accurate but this isn't the case in this failure because the clear didn't peel off the base, the base peeled off the primer. Now, the exact occured I believe in that the primer did as you suggest or the water borne cleaner was in the primer creating that barrier. But why just in that area around the handles?

Brian

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  #62 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2012, 06:53 PM
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Thanks...I appreciate the comments
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Old 09-26-2012, 07:03 PM
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[QUOTE=tech69;
Awesome post, and you are right! I'd also like to state I-Car also thinks your way. I'll have to remember, as you said, 1oz for each quart. I'll use that ratio for my car when it comes time to paint.[/QUOTE]

Tech69,
After seeing your work, I'm shocked you are not activating the base now, that I would blame on a bad jobber, as he should have educated you why you should or a bad paint rep.

Don't matter if you buy the base activator form the base company that you are using or if you use one of your clear activators, the most important thing you can do is use it in all your jobs, you owe it to the shop and most important, you owe it to the customer.
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  #64 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2012, 07:08 PM
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peeling

Exactly... the rules still apply...the solvents are trapped, very often the easiest product to be abused is the primmer, because, it pours thick and can be applied thick. the primmer will flash over and feel dry, you can let it sit for months and it is not cured through, when you top coat it the solvents will go right through the primmer down to bare metal and bounce out again trying to release itself. when it hits the catalysed clear coat it can take everything with it. This is also why many paint jobs sink and show sand scratches. The movement of solvents down to the metal and coming out is a design commonly known as "chemical adhession". 50% percent of the adhession mechanics of automotive paint, the 50% percent is mechanical, sanding.
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  #65 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2012, 07:21 PM
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peeling

If it was the cleaner (and i don't thinks so but paint has many variables. Around handles you have indentations even holes, where any fluids like to gather (cohession. If you have ever noticed "runs" often ocure around hole and body lines. This not only could give you a build up of cleaner, it could give you a build up of product like primmer, paint or clear, and with a build up of product you can get the flashing over effect causing the outer surface of the product to dry or flash and not allow the curing process to complete. Now, correct me if you think I'm wrong and I don't for a minute think I'm always right but I'd like to tell you why I don't think it is the cleaning product. Anytime I have had a cleaning product left on a substrate and I have put primmer, base, or clear over top I have had a mottling effect on the product I just applied. If it was the cleaning product, I would like to know if this was an effect experienced? Thanks again, I love the challange.
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  #66 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2012, 07:26 PM
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peeling

Mr. Martinsr....I get (Can I call you 69)..Ahhh let me think about it....No.
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  #67 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2012, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
If it was the cleaner (and i don't thinks so but paint has many variables. Around handles you have indentations even holes, where any fluids like to gather (cohession. If you have ever noticed "runs" often ocure around hole and body lines. This not only could give you a build up of cleaner, it could give you a build up of product like primmer, paint or clear, and with a build up of product you can get the flashing over effect causing the outer surface of the product to dry or flash and not allow the curing process to complete. Now, correct me if you think I'm wrong and I don't for a minute think I'm always right but I'd like to tell you why I don't think it is the cleaning product. Anytime I have had a cleaning product left on a substrate and I have put primmer, base, or clear over top I have had a mottling effect on the product I just applied. If it was the cleaning product, I would like to know if this was an effect experienced? Thanks again, I love the challange.
I agree with everything you have said.

Brian
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  #68 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2012, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
Mr. Martinsr....I get (Can I call you 69)..Ahhh let me think about it....No.
Bummer, you can call me Brian.

Brian
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  #69 (permalink)  
Old 09-26-2012, 10:21 PM
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peeling and sand scratches

If you sand with 320 grit and move to 600 you are leaving yourself open for sand scratch problems, especially with water born. Water born generally dries thinner than solvent. Think of it this way, 320 git paper leaves deep sand scratch in relationship to the finer 600 grit. Unless you are really thorough (and spend more time than if you used an intermediate grit, you won't sand the tops off of the 320 grit scratch. Rule of thumb, never jump more than 200 git in any final sanding project. Start with 400 grit and then move to your finer paper. The deeper the scratch or the courser the grit the smaller the jump in your next grit size. Un-primed filler 40-80-180 (and finer if you like). Primmer, 400-600-whatever, colour sanding, (depending on how well the clear laid down, if you have allot of orange peel 800 -1200- 1500-2000 and even 2500.
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Old 09-26-2012, 10:31 PM
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Brian, you can call me Ray...I'm in the process of researching a unique project. a 69 Firebird hence Pontiac-widetrack, the slogan in the 60's
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  #71 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2012, 01:08 AM
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TAKE A KID TO A CAR SHOW
 

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In the late 60s I was working at Flannery Ford and it was hot all summer so rear ,side ,and front bays where opened and we prepped cars before they entered the spray booth out in the shop every few days or weeks the paint was going crazy on the cars for 2 months no one could figure it out! And low and behold a guy came in with a chemical truck for work and when we delivered it it was right down the street on the other side of the block (No EPA regs. back then), They were venting their building into the open air!!!

When the wind blew the right direction it contaminated everything! We closed the doors and no more problem! one of their products was silicone and others were acids and p.c.b. grease and wax remover just helped spread it on the cars it wouldn't clean it

Off subject but I was reading some old pocket hot rod mags and remembered my past youth and thought I'd post it!

Jester
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2012, 06:41 AM
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Well,this is one old dino that will start activating his base from now on....
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2012, 11:22 AM
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PAINTED jESTER

I know what you mean. In the early 80's I had a shop that had fish eye problems and could not figure out how to solve the problem. I checked every thing, washed and cleaned the both, changed filters. and checked the entire shop for any contamination. Nothing. Finally after about 3 weeks and the problem still persisting I climbed on the roof to look at the air intake system. I found 2 empty bottles of armoural laying beside the shaft that appeared to have been sprayed into the paint both intake shaft. After a thorough clean up the problem went away. It turned out that they had fired a disgruntled employee 2 days before the fish eye problem began....we could only assume. It just goes to show everyone how important housekeeping and the use of questionable products can be.. I ask allot of questions before I try or use any new after market product without the Okay from the paint manufacturer.
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2012, 11:42 AM
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same thing happens on the body side of things too. Most times where the boss is clueless you'll have guys that are always in the bosses ear trying to hype up themselves. I ignore it and leave it to Karma. Honesty is always the best answer.
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old 09-27-2012, 11:49 AM
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TAKE A KID TO A CAR SHOW
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
I know what you mean. In the early 80's I had a shop that had fish eye problems and could not figure out how to solve the problem. I checked every thing, washed and cleaned the both, changed filters. and checked the entire shop for any contamination. Nothing. Finally after about 3 weeks and the problem still persisting I climbed on the roof to look at the air intake system. I found 2 empty bottles of armoural laying beside the shaft that appeared to have been sprayed into the paint both intake shaft. After a thorough clean up the problem went away. It turned out that they had fired a disgruntled employee 2 days before the fish eye problem began....we could only assume. It just goes to show everyone how important housekeeping and the use of questionable products can be.. I ask allot of questions before I try or use any new after market product without the Okay from the paint manufacturer.
Yes , There's always some nut out there!! I had a young body guy I hired that was using grease and wax remover just wiping it on and leting it dry! I told him he was just moving the contaminant's around and when the remover dried the contaminants would still be on the car!! So I told him the proper way, a bit later he was tacking off the car and pushing real hard with the tack cloth! I told him he didn't have to push hard to get the dust off, your leaving the sticky agent behind on the parts!!

Long story short I let him go, He just took advice as criticism like a lot of young people do! That night cars in the lot had the tires slashed!!!! I cant say he did it but it was in the back of my mind!

Jester
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