[cyclopsblown34]

On the activating base question. The parts guy with the mixing bank tells everybody the activator is unnecessary. My regular paint supplier said it slows the curing of the base and allows the metallic particles to flow a little bit. He also said alot of what Barry said. I bet you know where I buy my paint from.

[69 widetrack]

depending on product line, if the manufacturer recommends activating the base it is a good idea. If you don't activate the base the product should still adhere to the substrate, activating the base coat is like buying insurance, you hope you never use it but happy you have it when you need it.

[rickman2k]

not going thru all the post but did you use a sealer before starting the color ?

[painted jester]

I was thinking last night, about your base coat. I had a problem with a Sikkens special mix to match a ppg Lincoln glamor color for a 65 Impala complete color change, and it acted strange it never quite hardened all the way it felt like a super ball I took a razor and scraped a small piece off my practice piece and it stretched like cellophane! It was right at the time Keystone took over Sikkens in our area! I called a rep at Keystone no real help so I called a Sikkens rep and one came to the shop he mixed it as to the tech sheet and sprayed it on a sample square he brought with him, and took a sample of the paint to have analyzed And left. He called about a week later and told me what was wrong THEY GAVE ME THE WRONG TECH SHEET!!!! AND ON THE CAN THEY STUCK THE WRONG LABEL:ON!!!!! . I was supposed to get a tech sheet for L.V. 350 and a can label for L.V. 350, which is what was mixed in the can!! But I received a can labeled B.T.L.V 350 and a tech sheet for B.L.T.V. 350

The mix on the B.T.L.V. 350 is 3to1to1 but the L.V. is 1to1/2to1/4 He also told me the B.T.L.V. 350 is exclusive to Europe not here!!!

It was like pouring salt on an open wound I went nuts on this poor guy it wasn't his fault !!! > Barry will remember:< I already had a problem having to seal Sikkens sealer with another sealer we talked about it LOL ( who seals a sealer with another sealer ??? )

I got an apology and they Supplied all new materials in abundance LOL I have gallons left over LOL I used Sikkens in the past about 20 years ago But Ill never use Sikkens again!!! and they talked to the customer which I didn't ask them to do But none of my extra labor was paid and I couldn't charge my customer to repaint the car so I lost!

Any way maybe you could have the Base coat analyzed to see if there was any kind of problem! They may do it free!

Jester

[tech69]

they'll do it for free if he's doing it in a shop. No shop-no dice.

[deadbodyman]

Originally Posted by 69 widetrack

I know what you mean. In the early 80's I had a shop that had fish eye problems and could not figure out how to solve the problem. I checked every thing, washed and cleaned the both, changed filters. and checked the entire shop for any contamination. Nothing. Finally after about 3 weeks and the problem still persisting I climbed on the roof to look at the air intake system. I found 2 empty bottles of armoural laying beside the shaft that appeared to have been sprayed into the paint both intake shaft. After a thorough clean up the problem went away. It turned out that they had fired a disgruntled employee 2 days before the fish eye problem began....we could only assume. It just goes to show everyone how important housekeeping and the use of questionable products can be.. I ask allot of questions before I try or use any new after market product without the Okay from the paint manufacturer.

Another sabitour story....Get the rope.

[deadbodyman]

Originally Posted by painted jester

Yes , There's always some nut out there!! I had a young body guy I hired that was using grease and wax remover just wiping it on and leting it dry! I told him he was just moving the contaminant's around and when the remover dried the contaminants would still be on the car!! So I told him the proper way, a bit later he was tacking off the car and pushing real hard with the tack cloth! I told him he didn't have to push hard to get the dust off, your leaving the sticky agent behind on the parts!!

Long story short I let him go, He just took advice as criticism like a lot of young people do! That night cars in the lot had the tires slashed!!!! I cant say he did it but it was in the back of my mind!

Jester

Its not just the young guys...The worst is an old fossil that wont admit theres a better way thats even easier and faster or they are simply doing it wrong ,they just WONT listen an have the "I'll show you" mentallity...try to show an old timer how to use W&G remover the proper way and see what happens.Or they have a flanged seam upside down so it holds moisture like a cup ..its unbelievable someone can be in this business for years and not know some of the basics....I think every bodyman should paint for a while and every painter should do bodywork so they know some of the reasons we have to do it a certain way to get to a final result and stop acting like a bunch of whinny little girls.it makes me sick.

[usmc72]

Go on line or ask your paint supllier for the product data sheets peculiar to your paint materials. This will have any and all information you need to get a good paint job. Plus don't do like some newbies and mix products from different manufactures. Stay with one manufacturer for all your paint needs at that time. Primer,base coat, finish.

[tech69]

Originally Posted by deadbodyman

Its not just the young guys...The worst is an old fossil that wont admit theres a better way thats even easier and faster or they are simply doing it wrong ,they just WONT listen an have the "I'll show you" mentallity...try to show an old timer how to use W&G remover the proper way and see what happens.Or they have a flanged seam upside down so it holds moisture like a cup ..its unbelievable someone can be in this business for years and not know some of the basics....I think every bodyman should paint for a while and every painter should do bodywork so they know some of the reasons we have to do it a certain way to get to a final result and stop acting like a bunch of whinny little girls.it makes me sick.

seems like the older they are the more stubborn they become. If you try to address the situation they take it as if you're trying to show them up. They just can't admit being wrong, ever. This is apparent to anyone who is entering the trade cause you will only make it if you ignore it and walk on egg shells around these guys...so true. I've learned it's best to not only ignore it but to bend over backwards for them so you can extract what good information they have. It works like a charm but I had a lot of issues at first when it came to dealing with that. Now, I don't have to listen to them or work under them, but since I was good little butt kisser from the start, I can always go to them for info. With that said, even that doesn't work all the time cause some of these old farts will always view you as a threat to their job and will never want to show you a thing. I call them haters and ignore them.

[69 widetrack]

I don't believe it's the age, I believe it's the attitude. Being involved in the trade as a rep I have had the opportunity to witness many different types of personalities. I once was teaching a relatively new painter how to be more productive and minimize redoing work (never cost effective) and he became a quick study. The shop got busier and they decided to hire an apprentice painter for him. About 2 weeks go by and the owner of the shop called because his new man said he wasn't learning anything and ready to walk. I talked to the painter and he told me he wouldn't teach the new guy anything because "knowledge was power" and he would have a job forever if he kept all of his knowledge to himself. I completely agreed with the painter about knowledge being power but told him that giving his knowledge to someone else was powerful and he had the option of having power or being powerful. The painter thought for a minute and decided being powerful was a better situation. People are people, if it wasn't for the older guys that took the time with me when I was starting out I wouldn't have lasted in this profession. Yes people get set in their ways as time goes by, but, if they respect you, they will listen. I try to live my life with 3 words, Faith, Respect and Trust. I can explain the principal of these words if anybody is interested.

[MARTINSR]

Yep, "People are people so why should it be
You and I should get along so awfully".

LOL

When eyes are opened I feel it is a pretty even odds be it young or old if they are bull headed or not. I have a fifty year old guy I work with who has changed with the times and a 45 year old guy who is still in the seventies. Then in the paint shop I have three 25ish year olds one of them won't listen to a thing he is taught while the other two WANT to learn every day and do so.

It's like saying a certain group be it racial or age or sex are the worse drivers. That is the biggest bunch of crap ever. If one opens their eyes they see it VERY even between all "groups". We see what we want to see, it's just human nature, no bad guys or good guys.

Brian

[tech69]

two weeks and he's ready to walk? Wow! Out here, to even be a candidate to be taught you must be a damn good prepper and have already done your homework on paint processes, and most likely have at least two years just painting jambs. No one wants to hire unexperienced painters. If that kid really wants to make it he'll have to bite his tongue for a lot longer than two weeks.

[69 widetrack]

The young apprentice I was telling you about was finishing his second year of apprenticeship and getting ready to move on to his third year (I'm from Canada and we have different levels of apprenticeship, A minimum of 4 years with another minimum of hours per year to qualify as a "licensed technician". I'm sorry I don't know how the American system works). He took this job to be taught more and help advance his career. My fault I should have been more thorough in my explanation of "the apprentice".

[MARTINSR]

Here if you are in a union shop there is a four year apprenticeship but out of the union there is NO rules what so ever. A guy can walk into a shop and put quarter panels on or the brakes on your mom's car his first week.

Brian

[69 widetrack]

Wow, Out here you can do it (but you don't want to get caught), but if your working in a government/ insurance company approved shop you better have licensed techs and people who are on the apprenticeship program. The number of apprentices to techs may vary from province to province.