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  #121 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2012, 09:20 AM
Faith - Respect - Trust
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyclopsblown34 View Post
Brad, it looks like you've had a mishap even these experts can't solve. Sarcastic congratulations on that one. These guys have taught me more in the few years I've been on here than I learned in 15 years of painting in my own shop with just the paint supplier and outdated body and paint books for knowledge.
Well Brad, I'd like to sum it up the best I can. I feel I can speak for any person who has come to this thread and given their opinion, suggestion and or a possibility of "what may have happened". The fact is, we don't know. Any, some, a few, all and even none of what has been discussed here is the absolute reason for the failure. We have taken the experiences we have garnered from our past and past them on to you, hoping to give you, and anyone reading who has had a similar situation, that "ah ha moment", striking that memory nerve that reminds you that is what was done to create this problem. That doesn't always happen but, what has happened is that a number of viable probables have been discussed and perhaps the people that read this thread can at sometime in the future use the information discussed here and avoid a similar situation. As I mentioned earlier, paint is a tricky mistress, it's not like putting in a ball joint or throwing on a set of brake pads...it takes that human thought process to get to the end results we want. Any time you add in the human element, you have problems. Case in point...look at any religion.

Hope this helps
Ray

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  #122 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2012, 09:27 AM
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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
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You know what's funny Ray, at the shop I have been working in the past 12 years we got a wheel alignment machine at some point years ago. I am the kind of guy who JUMPS at the chance to learn something more, and to broaden my skills into any area I can. I was the one who jumped at the chance to learn this machine and everything I could about aligning. The first thing I found was that there is no "sort of" or opinions in it. There are the numbers, clear as day, it works, or it doesn't. Don't get me wrong there are lots of times you use your experience and work with "wrong" numbers but there are the numbers and you can clearly see them. I found the fact that you had those numbers to work with very refreshing and a big change from color matching and body work.

Brian
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  #123 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2012, 09:49 AM
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That's exactly what I was getting at...Painting is an ART. Installing ball joints, aligning front ends and framing a house (I'm not trying to put down these professions, they are valuable and we need all of them) are more of a trade. Hence the difference between a "Painter" and an "Applicator". A painter, in my opinion, is someone who cares about what they are doing, anticipates a situation, analyses the problem and comes to a workable solution. A painter is someone that see's the finished product in their head before the vehicle hits the both. A painter is the person that can look at a color and tell you what it needs to minimize blend area. An applicator puts paint on a car and hopes it passes when the customer comes to pick it up.

What I see here are a bunch of people that have shown that they care enough to start a new post and, for everyone to see, don't let pride get in the way and ask for advice. The worst person to put behind a paint gun is the one who claims he knows everything. I would much sooner deal with someone that tells me that they made a mistake than the person who says, "I don't know what happened, I did everything right".
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  #124 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2012, 01:02 PM
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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
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I would much sooner deal with someone that tells me that they made a mistake than the person who says, "I don't know what happened, I did everything right".
We had a head painter at work who was put in the position when the old head painter quit. My employer is a great family who will bend over backwards for people (they have kept me 12 years right?) and they worked with this guy WAY too long. He just didn't get it, he had no passion and just didn't get it. I knew most every rep that came by even from different companies as many of the guys I worked with when a rep had moved onto other jobs. Every time someone came in to work with him I would speak off the record and they all said the same thing, he refused to accept that HE was making mistakes, it was always the product, the product. I would watch him around the shop and then be able to tell the techs what to work with him on because he wouldn't tell them himself.

They all worked and worked and worked and he would come around and do some decent work for a week or two then slowly go right back to the same, it was bizarre!

A number of months ago he went into the boss and told him he couldn't take the pressure anymore and wanted someone else to take over. Two preppers who have a lot of passion jumped in and are doing a MUCH better job than the "head painter" did!

One of the things they will do is to do experiments, it's something I am big on, get a fender out of the metal bin and shoot it, pushing things, push recoat time, push primer, go to the outer limits so you can SEE what happens. When you are spraying everyday and have something happen in front of you it makes sense, you know what to do to correct it. If you never see what the outer limits are, how do you know when you are seeing the first hint of it?

Brian
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  #125 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2012, 01:29 PM
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I am a firm believer in pushing product to and past the limits set out by the manufacturer. When I was a Manufacturers Representative for paint companies it was easy. We always got gallons of new product thrown at us and we could use and abuse as much as we wanted. I felt it was vital to load product, run product, shoot it hot, shoot it cold and try to make it fail in every way possible. This way I was armed with information before it hit the shop floor. Very often it's what we've done wrong that enables us to do things right...As long as we watch, listen and learn.

Just a short thing that happened last week, it's kind of what I thought was funny, but, some "Reps" just don't get it either. A shop that I used to deal with and still have a great personal relationship with called me to help with a new 2013 car and had color issue (bad match, no variant close). When I get to the shop the Factory Paint Rep is in the mixing room with the painters and what comes out of his mouth, "go ahead guys, you can't make this NEW clear run"...The owner of the shop looked at me and asked, "what do you think Ray", I didn't want to make anybody look bad but I had to respond. I said "let me answer that with a question, How do we get it out of the can if it doesn't run?"
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  #126 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2012, 02:37 PM
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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
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I said "let me answer that with a question, How do we get it out of the can if it doesn't run?"
LOL, yep, makes sense to me.

Brian
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  #127 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2012, 02:56 PM
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Like i always say Brian...."Life is the easiest thing we will go through, it's only people that get in the way."

Ray
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