"Basics of Basics" Photographing your car. - Page 3 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > General Discussion> Hot Rod Art
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #31 (permalink)  
Old 08-29-2005, 01:26 AM
mattmanuel's Avatar
02,87,67,66,34 all Chevys
 

Last journal entry: Side project
Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 39
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Brian;
As an art major I studied most every media and ended up choosing photography as my favorite. I never made a living at it (or at least not a good living), so after a career in the military I ended up as a Software Engineer. I give you that little tid-bit of information as some sort of unit of measure as to the weight of my opinion. Sooner or later some one is going to chime in with "Well who the hell are you any way".
A photograph captures a moment in time that tells a story or defines a subject. In reading your post I got the feeling that it was more a "How to get your car on the cover of a Mag" than, how to photograph a car. I feel there is soo much more to it than that. While every thing you said was true, insightful, and important information, I found it some what one sided. Actually, after re-reading your original post (just now) I found it quite good. I guess maybe I got alittle put off by the "don't be too artsy" statement. My bad.
I too am not a great communicator, and I guess I failed in my attempt to say "basically" the same thing from a different view of the subject.
I do how ever congratulate you on your on your graceful, and tactful response when questioned and not attacked.

A few points where we differ...

A high noon shot is a ***** to get right.
Curbs don't kill a photo they just say "I'm parked"

To answer your question...rules are ment to be broken, hence creativity. The trick is to not over do it. The only wrong is when you chop your aunt Mary's head off in a family photo or have a Ford in the picture. Damn, did I say that out loud

As soon as I get some time to do it proper, I intent on tackling the subject of back grounds. I look forward to your input.

Matt

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #32 (permalink)  
Old 08-29-2005, 08:39 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,174
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,320
Thanked 1,161 Times in 1,024 Posts
Mark, I thank you very much for the response. My intent wasn't only to say "get your car on the cover" not by any long shot. But if that is what you "saw", that was my mistake in communication. More of what I meant by bringing that up was the fact that those photos in the magazines are usually pretty good and something to strive for. If you want it, you can do it is the idea I was after. To "demystify" how they get there. If it sounds easy enough for me to do it with some simple guide lines, so can the reader who never had a dream of doing so.

If all you want is a "snap shot" to capture a car you like, curbs, buildings, what ever be damned, get the car in good light and you have it. "Most" photos anyone takes of their own car is going to be just that. It is mostly going to be a document of your car being "somewhere". I even took a few of my lowly mini van with Mount Rushmore in the back ground and sitting out on the Bonneville salt flats last month on my vacation.

My whole point with the "Basics" is you can do so much more than that if you have the desire. I will see guys dig thru a box of photos for something like a club room wall or something and come up with some pretty funky stuff. That is where I got the idea to write my "Basics". We had a local resturant who wanted photos of all the cars up on their walls. Among the photos of cars in the club I was in there are some pretty nice ones, those made the bad ones look like hell. I know these guys, I KNOW they wanted better photos of their prized cars, but they just didn't know how to do it.

My "artsy" statement goes like this, unless you really know what you are doing, stay conservative. That is all I really mean.

Thanks for letting me know what you saw, I want to know how to improve my writing as much as my photogaphy.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #33 (permalink)  
Old 08-29-2005, 11:41 AM
Jacks 1977 Corvette
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 114
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I'm learning listening to you two. Anyways, everyone has their own style and reason for doing things in their photos.
I'm no stranger to to photography as I've been doing this since I was a kid. My Dad was a pro, I'm not. He believed the only good shots were taken with the Tripods. I tended to disagree with that over the years, (mostly lazy) but he was correct. Best sharp pictures are taken on a Tripod.

On the "curb" issue, sometimes that is the only shot to make and you have to make the most of it. It was the only place I could see to make that shot of the Space Needle and downtown Seattle at that angle. Also, sometimes you have to "make do" with whatever lighting you have at the time.

Here is a shot I like:

Last edited by Jacks77; 08-29-2005 at 04:51 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #34 (permalink)  
Old 08-29-2005, 08:03 PM
Jacks 1977 Corvette
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 114
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
Jack, sorry for the smart ars remark in the last post, but I can't stand that "show me what you can do" crap. First off, this is the interent, you don't know me, I don't know you. That is why I made my 15 year old girl joke. My car, our car, what is all that? I don't even know if that is your car or that you took the photos. I could post some that I didn't take, who cares? The point is PROCEDURE, that is all we are talking about. The funny thing is a number of other posters ARE photographers (or close) and all have similar PROCEDURES in their posts and or agree with the basics I had.

Those photos of yours are good, they are very nice photos. If that is all you want to hear, go ask your mom. If you want someone with an interest in photography to crititue them so you could possibly do even better, you ask them as you did ("Nickpickit 'em apart"). But if you can't disuss the crititue intellectually, don't ask.

Brian
Well, you accuse me of a smart ars remark?
I figure if someone is giving advice on a subject, they should be able to give some samples of "their" work.
If you see a professor teaching a photography class, you can bet he/she is gonna show examples of his work!
An Artist, is gonna show examples of his/her work.

You managed to get THREE very SMART ARS remarks in one thread!

"Those photos of yours are good, they are very nice photos. If that is all you want to hear, go ask your mom."
&
"I don't even know if that is your car or that you took the photos."
&
"But if you can't disuss the crititue intellectually, don't ask."

Last edited by Jacks77; 08-29-2005 at 08:38 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #35 (permalink)  
Old 08-29-2005, 09:19 PM
mattmanuel's Avatar
02,87,67,66,34 all Chevys
 

Last journal entry: Side project
Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 39
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Jack;
You need to work on the thickness of the skin Bro! It's all good
At one point in my life I was a damn fine Drill Sergeant, mostly due to the abuse I took from art professors. I have found for the most part that instructors of any kind will use others as examples. If I am teaching you to march and I trip and fall, I have just lost all credibility, and believe me I am prone to trip and fall. That doesn't mean that that i don't know how to march.

Matt
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #36 (permalink)  
Old 08-30-2005, 12:46 AM
mickey1031's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: S.A. Texas
Posts: 58
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Jack,
First looking at the second set of shots you posted they looked good. Is it somethign that i would hang on my wall? No. Why?
The one with the model reminds me of a women you thought was nice looking and took a shot of her and happen to get your car in it to.

The other one with the car on the beach that one jsut looks out of place. But great photo shop attempt.

As far as my work i will get you some shots but the ones i have right now are not of my car theya re other things that i happen to have on the computer,

Like i sid in the begining if you want to be told what is wrong in a photo i can do it for you , But i dont think it should be taken to heart completly just used as a tool to do better the next time.

I like the car it looks nice but if you want a photo of your car then take a photo of your car and pay attention to how it will look AFTER the shot.

The first one you had a building growing out of the trunk if you would have moved to your left just a bit more it would have been a really good shot of your car sittingin front of that sky line,

The ones you have with the model need some work still . think of it tis way ,
the car is your main focus. use the model to enhance that not to detract from it. This is not saying she is not good looking that is irelavent in this . Make her fit in with the car not being 5 foot away from it. I knwo how we all are we dont like anyne touching our pride and joy but if you want amodel in the car thy have to be lose and relaxed looking not looking like OMG i cant touch it it might get me in to mischif. Allow her to lay up aginst the side fo the can NOT on the car. she could enhance your car and make it look nice.

if you are doing jus the car,
park you car in a way that it is sititngin good LIGHT, and take a few shots of it with even a cheap digital camera so youc an see what it will look like on the shoot. But keep in mind if somethign is behind it you will have to show some seperation of it and the background.
Also use a tripod to stabelise the shots. Also watch the shadows.
Te one you said you used a pol. filter if this is the case you corrcted ti to the point to where your taking the benfits of the filter out of the finished photo.


Now as far a snit picking . this is what you asked for and everyone in here will look at this set of photos and see them difrently. This is not wrong it is a they way they see it. If yu like what you see then you will buy it if not you ill walk past i and for get about it.
The biggest things that you ned to remebe is to make sure that when you asked for nit picking other took that as they could speak thie mind with out you feelign like were cruseifying your work. I dont think anyone in here had that in mind we told you what we thought It is your job now to take all that was said in here and sort threw it and figure out what you would liek to improve on or to disregard.
What i wrote was my own thoughts on your photos I have never met you and havet been here to long so i dont know you to well . but rembe were readign this on Email so w dont kow that he reflection of the person writing is
kind of like you reading this and screaming a the top of your lungs
YOU DONTKNOWWHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!!! >;- compared to hey bud you dont have a clue about waht your talking about LOL!!! :-)\

completly ment as a exampel only but the thing is you dont know what or how i was meanning it do to no reflection here.
kee in mind that all of your photos tell a story. they also have alot to say to you and show you how to improve on them . I have been doing this for a few years and i still dont think of my self as more then a pro amiture. and i have several frist and second place ribbons form photo contest tha ti have entered.
So it is not what we like but what the others like and that is a hard pill to swallow sometimes. Good luck bud
Cheers
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #37 (permalink)  
Old 08-30-2005, 08:41 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,174
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,320
Thanked 1,161 Times in 1,024 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mickey1031
So it is not what we like but what the others like and that is a hard pill to swallow sometimes. Good luck bud
Cheers

Mickey, being this is an AA meeting here and we are all saying what is on our minds, type your post on an email, spell check it and then copy and post it here. I am not kidding, it is very hard to read.

That last line is a killer, it is a thought I have pondered many times. In my "Taste or WRONG" article I touch on it and have been beaten up over the idea that we build a car (paint a painting, take a photograph, etc.) to please OTHERS, not ourselves. This whole "I do it for me, to hell with everyone else" is BS. We do it to get a reaction out of others and that is what feeds us. Sure there are the super rare that don't give a damn. But we as HUMAN BEINGS, as a group, care what others thing and feel about US and our work. How in the world can we say "I don't care about your opinion" if we ASKED FOR IT? You damn right we car about the others opinion, or we wouldn't ask. The thing is we all want the opinion that agrees with ours, what ever that is. Sometimes that could even be a critique. If I ask "how to you like this" and some one says "No, that is isn't good" that IS what I may want to hear, so I can make it better.

The guy with the tattoo of the devil on his forehead and the five inch hoop ear and nose rings wants to see how others react, others opinions MATTER to him. Its the people who think it is cool along with the ones who shudder in horror, he LIVES FOR the reaction.

One day I was with the wife shopping for clothes. She was looking at tops, many, many tops. Picking them up, making a funny face and putting them down, looking for one that looked good TO HER. One that she put down was picked up by another lady, the look on her face told me she loved it.

It hit me, if my wife truely wanted to look good to people who were LOOKING AT HER which is what we all want, she would have maybe bought the top that she DIDN'T LIKE! Strange concept, but something to think about.


Brian

Last edited by MARTINSR; 08-31-2005 at 08:08 AM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #38 (permalink)  
Old 08-30-2005, 02:18 PM
Jacks 1977 Corvette
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 114
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
This whole "I do it for me, to hell with everyone else" is BS. We do it to get a reaction out of others and that is what feeds us. Sure there are the super rare that don't give a damn. But we as HUMAN BEINGS, as a group, care what others thing and feel about US and our work. How in the world can we say "I don't care about your opinion" if we ASKED FOR IT? You damn right we car about the others opinion, or we wouldn't ask. The thing is we all want the opinion that agrees with ours, what ever that is. Sometimes that could even be a critique. If I ask "how to you like this" and some one says "No, that is isn't good" that IS what I may want to hear, so I can make it better.

Brian
Now that was pretty good, well said. True as my photo's go. I like to see/hear what others have to say about them. You can bet your life, I will do some of the things suggested by you and the others on my next Photo shoot.

Now, on the other hand, my 77 Vette I have fixed up "exactly" how I like it and to heck with the others think!
I have to look at it and drive it, not others...
That is why it's a custom and also why I NEVER win when I go to Car Shows or Cruise In's. Others may not like my yellow wheels, spoiler, stinger hood or the way the interior is done, but, I LIKE IT and why I built it that way. If I wanted a car everyone else liked (mostly everyone) that wins trophies, I'd buy the brand new '06 Z06 500 hp Vette or paint my 77 red with Cragar wheels...
As it is, I've gotten about 4 seconds, 5 thirds, whole bunch of non-placing and ZERO 1st.

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #39 (permalink)  
Old 08-30-2005, 03:17 PM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,174
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,320
Thanked 1,161 Times in 1,024 Posts
LOL, you are right there Jack. I still don't know if I can accept that you drive that Vette for YOU. Stay with me here Jack. I had a 64 Vette myself and have had a 68 Camaro and driven many other "pony cars" or "sports cars" over the years. But with where technology has gone, those old "sports cars" and the like are like Model T's compared todays cars. In stock form my 95 SHO will out handle, and out accerate a stock 77 Vette. But it sure the hell isn't a VETTE. It is a friggen four door with a spoiler on it. So I would say if you wanted to just drive something that handled and was fast you would pick up a 2002 supercharged Pontiac GTP or something like that. No, you drive the Vette because Vettes are cool and fourdoors with spoilers aren't.

Have you driven a 2004ish Subaru WRX? That would blow your mind! If you want PERFECTION in handling, power, and comfort, that little car is an amazing piece of engineering.

My point is these are "economy" cars that get good gas mileage. The Mustangs and of course the late model vette are really mind blowers.


How we "feel" about such a subject as we are driving or building (many times building the car is more important to us) is pretty complex. Of course I could never tell you or anyone how they "feel", I am just talking about general human being feelings.


It's funny you should say what you said. I have always liked the "less than popular" way of doing things. The cookie cutter Hugger orange 69 Z with a cowl hood and white stripes is not my style at all. On another forum there is a guy who posted a photo of a BEAUTIFUL 68 Camaro he just bought. It has a flat hood, no stripes, just a stunning (at least in the photos) detailed bright red paint job. He is asking about what he should do to it and has gotten a lot of feed back about adding the cowl hood and white stripes! Here he has this beautiful car that is a little unique by NOT having these add ons and everyone wants him to add them.

By the way, I like all the photos you just posted. The low angle of the side shot helps with the curb, it looks like a horizontal patch of concrete behind the car instead of a curb. The interior and engine shots are clear and close enough that you can see the details, very nice.

Brian

Last edited by MARTINSR; 08-31-2005 at 01:00 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #40 (permalink)  
Old 08-30-2005, 09:05 PM
Member
 

Last journal entry: Suggestions worth sharing
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 132
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
First, I think we should all say thank you to Brian for his idea of an interesting thread. For any newbies reading this thread, Brian is a frequent contributor and a great resource for practical advice on many topics related to body work.

I'd like to offer a few additional suggestions relating to technique, as opposed to composition.

First, I believe that if a person really wants to improve their photography skills, a highly informative author is John Shaw. John is a nature photographer, but the skills and techniques outlines in his books also apply to other types of photography, including cars.

Second, I think it's hard to get good feedback if you judge your work by looking at prints. Most commercial photo printing, while admittedly better than it used to be, still introduces considerable uncertainty in trying to judge the quality of your work. One excellent solution to this dilemna is to shoot transparency (slide) film! You can still get extremely high quality enlargements made from your best slides (although at a slight premium in cost), and you will be evaluating the true colors and density of the transparency, rather than an interpretation of the negative. Transparency film is less forgiving of incorrect exposure than negative film, but remember that the idea is to improve your skills over time.

Finally, if you've never tried working with a film that gives highly saturated colors, or even exaggerated colors, give it a try and see how you like it. The favorite film of the majority of top landscape photographers over the last decade has been Fujichrome Velvia. This is a color transparency film, rated at ISO 50. Don't use it for close-ups of people's faces, as their complexion will look awful! But for any inanimate object, including landscapes, flowers, insects, or cars, it's my own personal favorite, and the favorite of many other people as well. I recall a workshop I once attended, where the instructor was projecting comparison slides of various films. The audible reaction from the audience ("oooh's and aaahs") was convincing, to say the least. Some photographers prefer a film giving a more realistic and less vivid color...if you find yourself amoung these, then fine. However, my point is to encourage you to at least give it a try and see for yourself how you like it. I predict that the majority who try it will never go back to something else, at least for this type of work.

I hope these comments will prove useful to someone.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #41 (permalink)  
Old 08-31-2005, 01:01 AM
mickey1031's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: S.A. Texas
Posts: 58
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by mickey1031
So it is not what we like but what the others like and that is a hard pill to swallow sometimes. Good luck bud
Cheers.


ok let me explain this some now that ti have reread it and had coffee.

when doing photos for someone else this is a true statement. I have had kids come in to the studio and taken the perfect shot of them. In my own eyes. they had a great smile and were sitting just right the whole Nine.

The parents come in and think that they are nice but like the one of child sitting there giggling and playing with the props around them .

This is the reason for my statement above. it is not what i think as a the photographer but what the person buy the print thinks. When you take a shot of the flowers or the trees or a car for someone . you are not taking it for your self and trying to take ot for your self is a challenge. but it will never fail you see things in a different light then the person who has hired you. so you will have some things that don't look right to them but do to you and vise versa.

this is why asking on a open forum you have so many answers that very so much. Nothing wrong with it just a difference in the way a person perceives what they are seeing.

If i can figure out how to post a photo here i will show you some of my work and a example of what im talking about.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #42 (permalink)  
Old 08-31-2005, 01:00 PM
Jacks 1977 Corvette
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 114
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
There is definitely some good info here!

Brian, remember you said you didn't like the building growing out the rear here?


Then how about this one... Dang curb is still there though
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #43 (permalink)  
Old 08-31-2005, 01:50 PM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,174
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,320
Thanked 1,161 Times in 1,024 Posts
, Jack, I don't think I ever said I didn't like that, I just argreed that they were. Other than the curb I like that shot. The car is such a different color than the back ground it is obviously the subject.

I only see a problem with the lighting on the second shot. The ***** with this is it could be the quality of reproduction from the print, scanner, how it was saved, my monitor....... that could well be the problem as well. I have some photos that look pretty good and well lit but with all the factors mentioned they look too dark.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #44 (permalink)  
Old 08-31-2005, 09:22 PM
Jacks 1977 Corvette
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 114
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
, Jack, I don't think I ever said I didn't like that, I just argreed that they were. Other than the curb I like that shot. The car is such a different color than the back ground it is obviously the subject.

I only see a problem with the lighting on the second shot. The ***** with this is it could be the quality of reproduction from the print, scanner, how it was saved, my monitor....... that could well be the problem as well. I have some photos that look pretty good and well lit but with all the factors mentioned they look too dark.

Brian
The lighting between the two shot were quite different.
Different time of the day.
Overcast vs sunny.
With yellow, that changes the color/tint

I haven't used a 35 mm slr for a few years now.
Only use digital camera.

Let's try this one, different day/time:


As you can see by now, I've taken different angles, times etc.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #45 (permalink)  
Old 08-31-2005, 11:39 PM
mickey1031's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: S.A. Texas
Posts: 58
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I mentioned the building growing out of the tail of the car,
As far as thsi se tof shots i like the first one better and the second one i like also everytign but the fron end of your car is just a tid bit hot or blowen out some. If you have photo shop you could adjust that a bit and make the front of the car stand out a bit more and it would be a really good shot.
how do you post in here? i would like to post a photo for you but have no clue how to get it to work . dont get the normal up load screen on this site.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Hot Rod Art posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1985 LTD 302 V8 Cheap begginer project car 1stPROJECTcar Engine 5 05-27-2011 03:18 PM
"Basics of Basics" Trial fitting parts MARTINSR Body - Exterior 4 02-23-2008 09:33 AM
Buyer Beware................... poncho62 Hotrodders' Lounge 10 05-19-2005 09:40 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.