"Basics of Basics" Sprung door repair. - Page 2 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Body - Exterior
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 03-12-2011, 11:36 PM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,174
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,319
Thanked 1,161 Times in 1,024 Posts
I thought I would post a few more photos with another hinge design. Same effect, but just an idea of how versatile this trick is. My Rambler passenger door needed to be aligned, it was hitting the cowl right at the bottom of the vent glass. The gape was closed up along the A pillar to just about nothing. The door was a little high so I lowered it, made things a little better but still the A pillar was real tight.

If you look at the photos you can see that these hinges are very odd, they fold against one an other like a house door hinge! You could go up and down and in and out a little but there is no way to bring the door back at the top like it needed. Not without shimming it of course and I didn't want to do that.

What I needed to do was bring the top back a little, leaving the bottom right were it was. The old block of wood in the hinge did just the trick, it bent the hinge and or mounting points just a little bit. I brought the striker down, and wham, door fit like a champ.

The first photo is of an old door I have so you can get a good understanding of how the hinge works. The second is off the door on my car taken from the front with the fender off. The third is where I put the wood on the top hinge. Last being finished fit.

Just another trick to door alignment.

Brian
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF7590.JPG
Views:	215
Size:	986.1 KB
ID:	53533   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF7591.JPG
Views:	219
Size:	950.8 KB
ID:	53534   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF7592.JPG
Views:	272
Size:	919.8 KB
ID:	53535   Click image for larger version

Name:	DSCF7593.JPG
Views:	192
Size:	1.22 MB
ID:	53536  

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 01-03-2012, 12:00 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Question

Brian,

Thanks so much for posting, this site is great. I do have a question though: my rear passenger-side door is sprung, but based on how the door is lining up, it seems like the hinges are bent forward, not up or down. In other words, The door doesn't need to come up or down, but instead back towards the trunk. Will the trick work for this? It's bent so badly that I can't even close the door.

Thanks,
J.J.

Last edited by JJNelson75; 01-03-2012 at 12:10 PM.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 01-03-2012, 08:59 PM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,174
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,319
Thanked 1,161 Times in 1,024 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JJNelson75
Brian,

Thanks so much for posting, this site is great. I do have a question though: my rear passenger-side door is sprung, but based on how the door is lining up, it seems like the hinges are bent forward, not up or down. In other words, The door doesn't need to come up or down, but instead back towards the trunk. Will the trick work for this? It's bent so badly that I can't even close the door.

Thanks,
J.J.
If you have a normal front swinging door (not "suicide") then yes it should work. But look at the design, does it look like the hinge pin will move back if you block it like I show?

If it needs to go back, you simply bend the lower one, then the upper one, bringing it back.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2012, 04:09 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: alabama
Posts: 120
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
doors on my 49 chevy

Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
Yes that's correct Dan. And it doesn't take a "sprung" door to use this trick. During a simple door alignment you can fine tune, or move a door past where the alignment movement is little you. And it works on hoods and trunks as well.

Brian
see what you can do with this brian. my doors are fine except about 4-6" from the bottom they stick out. check out the photos
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	001.JPG
Views:	115
Size:	151.4 KB
ID:	62120   Click image for larger version

Name:	002.JPG
Views:	94
Size:	159.2 KB
ID:	62121   Click image for larger version

Name:	008.JPG
Views:	106
Size:	155.2 KB
ID:	62122   Click image for larger version

Name:	003.JPG
Views:	102
Size:	146.5 KB
ID:	62123   Click image for larger version

Name:	007.JPG
Views:	103
Size:	141.9 KB
ID:	62124  

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2012, 07:58 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,174
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,319
Thanked 1,161 Times in 1,024 Posts
It looks like the front and rear of the cab had patch panels welded in wrong! What you can do, I am not sure but you may be out of luck alignment wise. Unless the top of the door is IN way too much, you are in for having a horrible gap or cutting and redoing those patch panels.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #21 (permalink)  
Old 01-23-2012, 11:40 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 30
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
When dealing with door alignment the rotation or pivot point of the hinge is the main factor. When you adjust or bend a hinge, think about what that will do to the pivot point. If the whole door needs to be moved to the rear, figure out how to move both upper and lower pivot points to the rear.

The latch is the other factor. It affects the up/down and in/out on the latching end of the door. Two of the three dimensions. While the hinges work together in all three: up/down, in/out, front/rear.

Ideally, the door should not be raised or lowered by the latch as it is closed. It should just click shut. Most of the time, life is not ideal.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #22 (permalink)  
Old 05-29-2012, 08:11 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanks for the info

Brian,

My son pulled a back-up with the door open stunt this last weekend and your method saved me untold work and or money. Thanks a lot for the tip you are the Bomb as they say!


Tracy
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #23 (permalink)  
Old 05-29-2012, 08:14 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,174
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,319
Thanked 1,161 Times in 1,024 Posts
You are very welcome, it is one of those magic tricks isn't it! I of course can't take credit for it, it was taught to me just the same as I pass it on here.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #24 (permalink)  
Old 05-29-2012, 08:21 PM
put up or shut up
 

Last journal entry: saying goodbye to the beast
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Antelope, Ca
Posts: 2,067
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 574
Thanked 231 Times in 210 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
"Basics of Basics" Sprung door.
By Brian Martin

This is one of those tricks that after you see it in action, you just can't believe you can get such a huge result from such a little action.

First off, what is "Sprung"? This is when the door is opened beyond it's normal operation bending the hinges and or mounting. It usually results in the door being too far forward. It will also put the door up or down in the back depending on if one of the hinges was effect more when the door was pushed too far open ("sprung").

So after this happens you can have a door that is hitting the front fender (or the front door in the case of the rear door in a four door being sprung) or it can be much less with the door being simply a little further forward or up or down in the back if it wasn't sprung that hard. It can happen when the door is opened as the car comes to a stop, or someone simply pushes on the door opening it further than it is designed to open. Or in extreme cases it is bent badly being sprung by driving the car backwards with the door open and the door hits a post, garage wall, fence or another car.

I have seen doors that were bent so bad you couldn't even think of closing them, with the door WAY forward or WAY high or low in the rear being fixed with this little trick. I have also seen them where they are folded over the front fender with the hinges ripped in two so it isn't going to work every time.

Here is goes, look at "Fig # 1" and you will see where the door has opened "E" and the stop built into the hinge ("1") and did it's job stopping hinge from swinging too far. One problem, the door bent at "B" and "D" and the hinge/cowl pillar bent at "A" and "C". At "A" it bent into the hinge/cowl and at "B" it bent into the door. And at "C" and "D" it bent pulling the metal away from the hinge/cowl and away from the door.


In "Fig # 2" you can see how if you put something into the hinge to block the movement of the hinge from closing at #2 and pull the door onto it, applying pressure "E", you are going to bend the door IN at "B", IN at "A", and OUT at "C" and OUT at "D", exactly opposite what happened when the hinge was held from opening too far. Is that cool or what? Remember the hinge is VERY strong and you are not going to damage it by doing this, at least not before the metal on the door and cowl bend first.


This can be done with something like a socket as in photo #1 on this Ford Windstar. There is very little room so something like this works well.


Or it can be done with a piece of wood or what ever else you can find if you have a little more room like on this 65 GM A body, Photo #2. In this case, the wood still is a little big and if I were to close the door on it, the 2x4 would be resting on the cowl it's self right next to the hinge. This would likely cause some damage at that point on the cowl being the forces created by all that leverage would be localized right there. But sometimes this works to your advantage because the cowl IS pushed out right there. But most of the time you are going to want the item you put there to be touching nothing but the hinge so it is focusing the forces on exactly the same points the hinge did when the door was sprung.


You would be surprised how often you can make minor adjustments on door fit when the door hasn't even been sprung. If you are fitting a door and it is at the end of the adjustment holes on the hinge and won't go back any further, a little "tweek" like this can do the trick.

Now, is this "hack" work or something, not on your life. It is no different than "massaging" metal in any other way to get it to do what you want it to do. And how do you like this, this exact method is used at the factory every day! Yep, right on the line over at the NUMMI plant where they build Toyotas and Pontiac Vibes in Fremont California there are people doing this very thing as the car is on it's last few stations before it rolls out of the plant. I have to assume it happens at many other assembly plants.

Of course, if your car uses a "Check strap" of some kind to limit door travel then that check strap is likely damaged. Some cars have this limit built into the hinge as the two I have provided photos of. But many cars don't have this limit built into the hinge, or at least it not designed to limit the travel as well and the door would hit the fender before the hinge stopped it. The check strap is usually on lighter cars where the hinges are made lighter. These were first found on early cars in the form of a strap of leather or something screwed to the door and to the hinge/cowl panel, hints the name "Check STRAP". Of course these days it is in the form of a metal or plastic piece that sticks out of the front of the door and bolts to a pivot on the hinge/cowl pillar right in the middle between the hinges. Many times a door will be "sprung" and this strap will get damaged inside the door. So you want to be sure to check to see if the strap is still working properly restricting the movement of the door. If not, it needs to be replaced.

And to figure out which hinge to do if the door is up or down, this "Basics" on panel alignment will spell it all out. http://autobodystore.com/ms1.shtml
Nice one. I do the same thing with certain decklids to lower or raise the corners.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #25 (permalink)  
Old 05-29-2012, 10:52 PM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,174
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,319
Thanked 1,161 Times in 1,024 Posts
Yep, same thing. You can block the hinge to bend it down or up depending on what you need.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #26 (permalink)  
Old 06-05-2013, 09:43 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Surprised, I only found this help here at Hot Rodders

The wind caught the door on my 2005 Ford E-350 van, and the configuration is such that after shutting it and discovering it was jammed, I couldn't open it enough to see what got bent.

I 'just knew' that the fix should be simple, but would never have figured it to be this easy.

Thank you so much for the help.

(Strange that the help is only found here)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #27 (permalink)  
Old 06-06-2013, 08:17 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,174
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,319
Thanked 1,161 Times in 1,024 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by DerickMoore View Post
The wind caught the door on my 2005 Ford E-350 van, and the configuration is such that after shutting it and discovering it was jammed, I couldn't open it enough to see what got bent.

I 'just knew' that the fix should be simple, but would never have figured it to be this easy.

Thank you so much for the help.

(Strange that the help is only found here)
Isn't it great when a plan comes together!

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #28 (permalink)  
Old 06-06-2013, 09:22 AM
put up or shut up
 

Last journal entry: saying goodbye to the beast
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Antelope, Ca
Posts: 2,067
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 574
Thanked 231 Times in 210 Posts
sometimes you even have to take out the door catch/stopper and check the mating surfaces and straighten the area it mounts to. This technique is also the same technique as bending decklid hinges, but you're not really bending them just tweaking the mating surface.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #29 (permalink)  
Old 06-06-2013, 07:55 PM
John long's Avatar
Slow but willing learner
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Age: 69
Posts: 2,134
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,013
Thanked 1,335 Times in 1,081 Posts
Since this thread is active again, I have a question please. On a hinge assembly like a 55 chevy that will adjust fore and aft ok but is in at the top and bottom beyond the adjustment limits can this be used to make the poor close a little more out in front. Shimming the front of the hinge would work but bending the hinge would also make bring the front out some. Very similar to a trunk hinge.

John
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #30 (permalink)  
Old 06-06-2013, 08:11 PM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,174
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,319
Thanked 1,161 Times in 1,024 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by John long View Post
Since this thread is active again, I have a question please. On a hinge assembly like a 55 chevy that will adjust fore and aft ok but is in at the top and bottom beyond the adjustment limits can this be used to make the poor close a little more out in front. Shimming the front of the hinge would work but bending the hinge would also make bring the front out some. Very similar to a trunk hinge.

John
John, yes, if you did this it would bend the hinge pushing the front of the door OUT.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Body - Exterior posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"Basics of Basics" Photographing your car. MARTINSR Hot Rod Art 89 03-31-2009 02:53 AM
"Basics of Basics" Rebuilding hinges. MARTINSR Body - Exterior 0 09-30-2007 11:16 AM
"Basics of Basics" Seam Sealers MARTINSR Body - Exterior 1 09-22-2007 03:28 PM
"Basics of Basics" Reverse masking for two tones MARTINSR Body - Exterior 0 03-12-2007 11:32 PM
"Basics of Basics" Color Matching-Alternates MARTINSR Body - Exterior 2 02-03-2007 06:33 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.