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Old 12-04-2012, 12:02 AM
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Battery of the future LiFePO4, I got mine

After 3 1/2 months they finally arrived. Notice the serious banding due to the cells ability for huge discharge and ultra fast charging causes bulging. These cells with their cycle life will out live me. This is one of two packs I bought, the other still in the garage. 31 lbs and can store enough energy to propel the kayak 30+ miles per pack.


Cells generally receive a 50% charge at the factory in China. 3 of the 4 cells read 3.32 volts, the one on the far left was 3.31 volts. Only 1/100th of a volt difference.




Pack voltage


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Old 12-04-2012, 05:39 AM
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A lifetime battery?
It's kind of wild looking.
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:25 AM
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lifetime battery... I'll believe that in 20 years and no one sells batteries anymore..
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:43 AM
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I seriously doubt that these are 'lifetime' regardless of the advertising hype.

Ain't gonna happen
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:59 AM
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My lifetime, which isn't that much longer, but 2000 cycles. These are the batteries (lithium) that power future electric cars and the required testing proved 2000 cycles to 80% DOD (depth of discharge) before the advertised capacity drops to 80%, which is still a good battery. I'll be discharging at a rate of around 50 cycles per year and I don't expect myself to live to 100.

Not advertising hype, you purchase this type of battery for the amount of cycles it can do, and they have been tested to perform at that service. Do you think Detroit would sell an electric car if they couldn't warrant the expensive battery? The Tesla S uses these batteries (a lot more of them than my 8 cell purchase) for a 300 mile range X 0.8 (DOD) = 240 miles X 2000 (cycles) = 480,000 miles on the battery pack before its capacity is reduced by 20%.

Even though expensive, for the given cycle life they are a bargain. The above pack has (4) 3.2 volt cells to make a 12 volt battery for my electric propelled kayak, I bought (8) cells for $880.00 to make (2) 12 volt batteries that will allow more than 60 miles of travel per charge.

Batteries like these were $2000 just 4 years ago and impossible to get unless you worked in R&D for a large corporation. Now the same amount of kW-hr of storage has dropped to $880 but still rather hard to get. "Lifetime" is a term I used as a 60 year old concerning myself. It is getting to the point that no matter what I post on this forum I am challenged on. I give a glimpse into the future, and the naysayers come out of the woodwork. It is a good thing progress continues on even with this forum's doubters, because with the attitudes expressed here we would still be driving with flathead engines.


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Old 12-04-2012, 10:27 AM
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"These cells with their cycle life will out live me. This is one of two packs I bought, the other still in the garage. 31 lbs and can store enough energy to propel the kayak 30+ miles per pack."

This would be great if true, but until proven, I am sceptical. "will out live me" That is a pretty strong statement. Are you really sure? Actually bet your life on it? Or is it a case of that is what is advertised, and expected, but not yet actually tested.

"store enough energy to propel the kayak 30+ miles per pack."
What does that mean? How many amp hours, or kilowatt hours, at what discharge rate?

How long to recharge?

Show me the battery that can lift a 747 from sea level, to 30,000 feet, then fly it 8,000 miles, with 400 passengers, and their luggage, that will fit in the wings and fuselage of that airplane.

I actually would think it would be great to have an electric car. I have given some thought of taking one of my old Datsun pickups, and converting it to electric, and putting the batteries in the bed. Even thought of putting a lot of excess capacity in the battery pack, driving an almost dead truck to one of the local electric free recharging stations that are becoming popular in Oregon, and actually using the battery at home, instead of electricity through my meter.

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Old 12-04-2012, 10:47 AM
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The pace in my electric kayak is rather sedate, around 6 mph pulling about 220 watts. The (2) blocks of cells are 12.8 volts at 200 a-hr or 2560 w-hr storage. 70 mile range at 100% DOD, so never want to push it that far, but at 80% DOD, a 56 mile range which at 10 hours of travel is about all I could handle myself.

The goal with a couple of solar panels is to be able to cover 75 miles every 2 days AND run a small Engel freezer to keep my steaks frozen and make ice for the ice chest. Then I will be able to kayak camp for weeks and sail down the Sea of Cortez in Mexico.

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Old 12-04-2012, 10:59 AM
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Huh ?????????

I can afford those batteries,BUT,i would not buy them BECAUSE they are made in CHINA,i would not like to go thru the hassle on warranty..I BUY AMERICAN..........(as much as possible)
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:08 AM
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I don't have much choice but to buy the China cells. I have a offer on this one-off prototype catamaran trawler with 6 kw of solar panels. If I want this to be a more capable long range cruiser I'll have to refit with 50+ kw-hr lithium batteries and as of now, China is the only game in town.

BTW Boatbob2, this boat is currently in your neck of the woods and makes runs to the Bahamas without using any diesel.
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:25 AM
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Deckofficer, Your electric Kayak sounds cool - especially if you can go for extended periods using just the batteries and solar panels! Batteries like these are part of the improvements to be had from additional renewable energy research! Part of the reason China is the only game in town (currently) is that we have been listening to the oil lobby and not investing in new technology here! Maybe we will wise up and become the leader in this and many other technologies, like we can be!
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:42 AM
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sedanbob,

You are one astute guy. We as a nation used to lead the way in technology and I hope we can return to that position.
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Old 12-04-2012, 04:07 PM
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For just a 450 mile shipment, they sure packaged them well.
One of the two banks, and packed tight with closed cell foam sheets.




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Old 12-04-2012, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deckofficer View Post
For just a 450 mile shipment, they sure packaged them well.
One of the two banks, and packed tight with closed cell foam sheets.




I'm sure it's got more to do with the shipping rules then anything..
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Old 12-04-2012, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Irelands child View Post
I seriously doubt that these are 'lifetime' regardless of the advertising hype.

Ain't gonna happen
I agree.. Nothing is made today to last long.. Run it until it goes out.. Throw it away and buy another one.. Isn't that how it goes..
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Old 12-04-2012, 04:31 PM
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I agree.. Nothing is made today to last long.. Run it until it goes out.. Throw it away and buy another one.. Isn't that how it goes..
I hope not in the case of this small battery shipment, and really hope not for the big cells that will run $13,800.00.
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