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-   -   BBC Cam Lobe Paranoia? (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/bbc-cam-lobe-paranoia-234062.html)

66GMC 06-17-2013 08:12 PM

BBC Cam Lobe Paranoia?
 
Hi Folks,

I finally got around to removing the intake today with the intention of re-sealing the rear china wall with Ultra Black RTV (as suggested on this site.)

The first surprise was seening crud in the thermo housing, on the thermo, and gelled antifreeze under the thermo on the floor of the water passage inside the manifold.

It got worse when the (RPM Air Gap) manifold came off. The driver's side rear water passage was nearly plugged with technicolor goo. (Yuck)
http://www.hotrodders.com/journal_ph...3715185340.jpg

I plan to fix this situation by refilling with tap water and GUNK rad flush ... and then refilling with 50/50 premix. It just had to be a chemical reaction with tap water, right? :confused:

Block was dipped, the rad is brand new ... everything is (was) brand new, with only hours -- not years -- of run time. Yes, the engine has sat idle for a couple of years now. I discovered that the t'stat housing was actually corroded to the point of perforation, but then again it's made from genuine Taiwanisium. :rolleyes: Any recommendations for a GOOD new one?

I have reordered a FelPro Performance Intake Gasket Set (#1210) also at the advice of the membership here. The gaskets pictured in my journal are Felpro MS90240-2 which would have been stock on this engine.

Now on to the subject of this thread:
Some of you may recall that I have experienced the scrubbed cam lobe on the initial startup on the original cam. We're now on cam #2, and I MAY be paranoid ... but I don't like the look of the lobes considering this NEW cam has just break-in and occasional "show and tell" sessions on it.

http://www.hotrodders.com/journal_ph...3715191131.jpg

More pics and story in my latest journal entries. (#73, 74, 75)
Opinions?

BOBCRMAN@aol.com 06-17-2013 08:30 PM

Looks good.....

techinspector1 06-17-2013 11:01 PM

Since there is only a pencil-point of contact between the lobe and the lifter, the width of the wear marks shows you how far back and forth the cam moves in the block.

cobalt327 06-18-2013 04:07 AM

Lobes:
From what is shown, it looks like normal wear patterns to me. If the wear on the lifters looks circular and NOT a line across the face, then the lifters are rotating and all should be OK.

The crud in the water passages could be from the water pump being over lubricated (is it grease?) or from something being left in the block, but I have never seen a reaction between potable tap water and antifreeze look like that!

oldbogie 06-18-2013 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 66GMC (Post 1685963)
Hi Folks,

I finally got around to removing the intake today with the intention of re-sealing the rear china wall with Ultra Black RTV (as suggested on this site.)

The first surprise was seening crud in the thermo housing, on the thermo, and gelled antifreeze under the thermo on the floor of the water passage inside the manifold.

It got worse when the (RPM Air Gap) manifold came off. The driver's side rear water passage was nearly plugged with technicolor goo. (Yuck)
http://www.hotrodders.com/journal_ph...3715185340.jpg

I plan to fix this situation by refilling with tap water and GUNK rad flush ... and then refilling with 50/50 premix. It just had to be a chemical reaction with tap water, right? :confused:

Block was dipped, the rad is brand new ... everything is (was) brand new, with only hours -- not years -- of run time. Yes, the engine has sat idle for a couple of years now. I discovered that the t'stat housing was actually corroded to the point of perforation, but then again it's made from genuine Taiwanisium. :rolleyes: Any recommendations for a GOOD new one?

I have reordered a FelPro Performance Intake Gasket Set (#1210) also at the advice of the membership here. The gaskets pictured in my journal are Felpro MS90240-2 which would have been stock on this engine.

Now on to the subject of this thread:
Some of you may recall that I have experienced the scrubbed cam lobe on the initial startup on the original cam. We're now on cam #2, and I MAY be paranoid ... but I don't like the look of the lobes considering this NEW cam has just break-in and occasional "show and tell" sessions on it.

http://www.hotrodders.com/journal_ph...3715191131.jpg

More pics and story in my latest journal entries. (#73, 74, 75)
Opinions?

The bottom picture tells the story, lobe number 2 and 3 in from the left are wiping out, the wide near center rub band on the lobe is the giveaway.

I'm not a fan of antifreeze diluted with water. But if you must follow instructions than use either distilled or de-ionized water. All tap water carries dissolved chemicals picked up from the soil and rock it passed through and/or added for taste, anti-bacterial or dental health by the water district. This stuff can be very corrosive depending on these previous conditions. Plus different types of anti-freeze are not compatible with other types and this situation has become extremely complex in recent years. Given that there are all these strange brews out there, I just cringe when I see words on Prestone containers that say itís compatible with all other anti-freezes. The company I used to implicitly trust is now telling me "one size fits all"; I don't think so!

Living on the west coast where the weather is gentler in winter so I don't need to be concerned about the antics of pure old fashion ethylene glycol Prestone at sub zero temperatures and subjected to very hard water if it isn't distilled or de-ionized, I long ago switched to a waterless solution of 100% Prestone. While I fiddle now and then with the chemistry of mixing ethylene and propylene glycols, I mostly just use Evans waterless any more, it makes the problems of chemical reactions inside the cooling system, corrosion of the parts, worrying about nucleate boiling and such concerns just go away. The peace of mind is more than worth the extra money.

Bogie

ap72 06-18-2013 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldbogie (Post 1686157)
I mostly just use Evans waterless any more, it makes the problems of chemical reactions inside the cooling system, corrosion of the parts, worrying about nucleate boiling and such concerns just go away. The peace of mind is more than worth the extra money.

and compared to water, how effective is it as a COOLANT?

I won't argue that you've had luck with waterless coolant, but your approach has to be the most bassackwards approach to coolant selection I have ever heard of, most people seek good heat transfer first and then worry about corrosion and localized boiling.

Your approach is much more stable, not denying that, but its also a MUCH less effective coolant.



As for the water- I always use tap water, either from city supply or a well- and never had any problems. I see people going out of there way to buy distilled water and I just shake my head and laugh, then again I worked in water supply for a few years and still do a lot of work with water and pumping and know how silly worrying about the insignificant difference between tap and distilled water is for this application.

FWIW, almost all commercial and industrial cooling towers/supplies use plain old tap water that is often stored in ponds or exposed towers.

BTW, fluoride and chlorine are in the 2ppm range each in urban water supplies, in a 15L cooling system that equates to a few HUNDREDTHS of a gram total, there's not a single part in your car that is measured to hundredths of a gram.

F-BIRD'88 06-18-2013 02:52 PM

Go buy a new camshaft and new lifters. You have a less than 50-50 chance of that cam running again in any motor reguardless of how good it looks. Or how care full you are.

new flat tappet cams are cheap.

123pugsy 06-18-2013 03:35 PM

Pull a couple of lifters and check the bottoms.

AutoGear 06-19-2013 08:54 AM

It might be wise to look into a roller cam conversion at this point. Before my time but, the boat yard I worked at had issues with BBC flat tappet cams going flat. I know next to nothing about BB Chev, but it seems like they have some oiling issues. Add in suspect cam cores and renegade lifters with todays aggressive lobe profiles and stiff springs. If a roller cam isn't in your future, PLEASE talk to someone about getting a cam that's been nitrided or whatever proprietary process that Comp is using (parkerizing?). Yeah, the core may still be too soft, but its better than nothing. What are your valvetrain specs?

Sorry to see you're having problems like this

66GMC 06-19-2013 09:11 AM

I haven't pulled any lifters yet ... will try to do that in an evening or next weekend. I may even ask my ex-boss (and former NAPA machine shop owner)to come over and get his opinion.

But yes ... IF this cam is going to have to get pulled out, there will be a roller cam going back in. I know thats sort of what I said the first time ... but darn it, the price difference! :sweat: (I know ... it's all relative.)

This engine, and entire project ... is starting to feel like a "money pit". I'm tired of the "re-do's" (on brand new parts) ... and this thing hasn't even turned a wheel yet!

I'm about ready to tie a chain around this thing and throw it overboard.:pain:

AutoGear 06-19-2013 09:34 AM

I don't know the history of your block and heads, but could this be an issue with the cam tunnel / lifter bores exacerbating an already marginal problem?

123pugsy 06-19-2013 10:50 AM

Maybe it's my eyes, but that's the driest engine I've ever seen. Can't be good on start up.

35WINDOW 06-19-2013 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ap72 (Post 1686181)
and compared to water, how effective is it as a COOLANT?

I won't argue that you've had luck with waterless coolant, but your approach has to be the most bassackwards approach to coolant selection I have ever heard of, most people seek good heat transfer first and then worry about corrosion and localized boiling.

Your approach is much more stable, not denying that, but its also a MUCH less effective coolant.

You know, I was semi-aware of Evans, and in the quest to figure out the best approach to plumb my Hilborn I was first told to use it from Andy Starr at Hilborn (as he uses it in his '56 BBC w/Hilborn)-he swears by it because of it's cooling qualities, and told me he noticed a big difference when he changed over-

Anyway, this past week I ordered and received "Engine Cooling Systems by Ray Bohacz "-I received it last Saturday-it is a little boring in places, but there is a lot of good information there-he is a big Evans guy too, and for many good reasons, such as Boiling Point (375 degreees on Evans vs. 265 for water), the fact that it is very resistant to "vaporizing or boiling", it doesn't have "silicate fallout", won't corrode because there is no water in it and many other valid reasons-

I am gathering info on this stuff (I know it's been out for a long time), but, so far, I can't find really bad stuff on this-do you have info on it?

I was a little bit shocked, and, I am gathering info on Evans products as I am very concerned about keeping my combo cool-

1Gary 06-19-2013 12:26 PM

Check the lifter bore clearances.It a issue with the aftermarket blocks and we went through a problem with OEM blocks yrs ago,Yepper 5 engines in the frame rails in 4 wks with BBC's,all rollers,all valve train problems.Got us to set out for 2ys.

66GMC 06-19-2013 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 123pugsy (Post 1686563)
Maybe it's my eyes, but that's the driest engine I've ever seen. Can't be good on start up.

Yes, it's dry. It hasn't run for about 2 years.

IF these lifters pass inspection, they will be getting the lifter lube treatment, fresh oil and NAPA Gold filter, and the oil pump will be primed again to the point of oil returning to the intake valley before this thing gets fired up again.

As to the coolant issue, I plan to fill it with water and warm it up ... then add a can of rad flush ... run it some more. Flush it with a flush tee and garden hose until it comes out clear, then drain and refill with fresh 50/50 premixed antifreeze.

In other words ... spare no expense and err on the side of caution!

I talked to my ex-boss this morning and he has agreed to come have a look.


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