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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 07-11-2008, 07:10 AM
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I suggest taking the car to a shop with an analyser and get all the info youll need.
without the engine in front of me i cant see what problem your having?

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 07-11-2008, 07:24 AM
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Its an s10 that I built. It has a sbc in it. I can't time it because I have a missmatched balancer/timing pointer. I have a 6-3/4 balancer on it with a timing pointer at 2 o'clock.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 07-12-2008, 03:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scapegoat
Its an s10 that I built. It has a sbc in it. I can't time it because I have a missmatched balancer/timing pointer. I have a 6-3/4 balancer on it with a timing pointer at 2 o'clock.
Have followed this off and on so if I missed this being said already sorry. Put the engine at top dead center. Get some timing tape (cheaper than a new balancer) for your size balancer. Start at the pointer with 0 degrees and wrap it around. Now you know your pointer is dead on.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 07-12-2008, 04:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heyjude076
Have followed this off and on so if I missed this being said already sorry. Put the engine at top dead center. Get some timing tape (cheaper than a new balancer) for your size balancer. Start at the pointer with 0 degrees and wrap it around. Now you know your pointer is dead on.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

New to this thread but you may have to explain to him just how to find TDC to set up the timing tape. Also, the balancer will have to be totally clean (no paint, etc.) to get the tape to stick. Remember that he is stuck on the pointer and balancer not lining up. Unless he knows what engine the front cover came off of he can order balancers all day long a may not get the correct one for his application.

Steve
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 07-12-2008, 06:42 AM
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The timing cover is an aftermarket piece with no timing mark. I have a cheap mr. gasket pointer that bolts on at the two o'clock position. I have found topdead center before but the balancer just got close to zero not right on it. I usually hate trying to find TDC. I seem to always have trouble with it.

I would like to think of myself as not a dummy. I have built and assembled many engines in my not so long hotrodding career. But I have always not been so fond of the ignition procedures.

I have three balancers. The one im questioning is a 6-3/4. I also have another 6-3/4 that could use a sleeve on the snout (its a little rough looking). And my third balancer I have is an 8" and in okay shape that is original to the engine "block". There is nothing original about the engine today. I could try the 8" I have and go get a cheap pointer for an 8".
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 07-12-2008, 08:15 AM
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As I see it you'll never be sure until you get TDC settled on. It really doesn't make a difference what pointer you have if you don't bend it.

Finding TDC is easy. Just get a bolt with the correct thread for the plug hole and long enough to thread into the cylinder. Pull all the plugs in the engine. Put the bolt into No 1 cylinder. Turn the engine over by hand until the piston just barely hits the bolt. Take a piece of masking tape and apply it to the balancer leaving enough to make a second mark when you need it. Mark the tape at the pointer. Reverse the direction that you turned the engine over until it barely hits the piston. Mark that position at the pointer. Then take a flexible tape measure (wife's sewing tape) and measure the distance between the two. Divide in half and that should give you top dead center of the piston. Mark that on the balancer by cutting a small goove in the balancer. Then apply a different color paint to the groove. I like yellow as opposed to white so you don't confuse it with the original timing mark.

In lieu of the groove in the pulley you can get a timing tape and apply it. Just make a mark on the edge of the pulley so that you know where to place the "0" when you apply the tape.

Start your timing procedure from there.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 07-12-2008, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reflog
As I see it you'll never be sure until you get TDC settled on. It really doesn't make a difference what pointer you have if you don't bend it.

Finding TDC is easy. Just get a bolt with the correct thread for the plug hole and long enough to thread into the cylinder. Pull all the plugs in the engine. Put the bolt into No 1 cylinder. Turn the engine over by hand until the piston just barely hits the bolt. Take a piece of masking tape and apply it to the balancer leaving enough to make a second mark when you need it. Mark the tape at the pointer. Reverse the direction that you turned the engine over until it barely hits the piston. Mark that position at the pointer. Then take a flexible tape measure (wife's sewing tape) and measure the distance between the two. Divide in half and that should give you top dead center of the piston. Mark that on the balancer by cutting a small goove in the balancer. Then apply a different color paint to the groove. I like yellow as opposed to white so you don't confuse it with the original timing mark.

In lieu of the groove in the pulley you can get a timing tape and apply it. Just make a mark on the edge of the pulley so that you know where to place the "0" when you apply the tape.

Start your timing procedure from there.
Thats sounds like a good explanation there. I will give it a try in the next few days when I find time.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 07-12-2008, 03:11 PM
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Amazing. Malc gives you excellent advice and a great article. You then flame him for questioning your dedidcation and your level of knowledge about YOUR OWN parts when you admit you didn't even read the instructions for your parts! Then you come up with the tired "this is an open forum and I am just trying to learn" B.S.!!! Now in your infinite wisdom you inform us all that you can't time your engine due to mismatched balancer and timing tab! Guess your original post wasn't needed, was it? Fix your mismatched parts, read the article that was suggested, and time your engine. Simple, no?

Another example of the new age rodder. Asks questions, doesn't understand the answers even though he says he is reading up on the subject, gets mad at somebody kind enough to post a reply, then diagnoses the problem himself by doing what he should have done in the first place; GETTING HIS HEAD UNDER THE HOOD OF HIS VEHICLE AND INVESTIGATING! That's the definition of hot rodding in my opinion. Far too many people are moving away from that I fear.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 07-12-2008, 06:09 PM
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timing issues

I don't know a lot but maybe this helps. If you want a new balancer go to the balancer guy online. He's in Redding Caif. For about $60 bucks you will get the correct balncer for yor engine. Off the top of my head I would say that you need a 6 and 3/4 inch balancer with a 2 o'clock TDC. 305 cid uses 12 o'clock. Take of the left valve cover and make sure that both valves are closed on number 1 cylinder. this is TDC for your motor. This isn the easiest way to get "true" tdc. Disconnect your distrubutor, set the timing light to 36 degrees advance, set mark to zero and you should be good. Use a timing tab that bolt onto tha upper side of the timing cover. Be sure to look at two different ones because one is for the 8 inch balancer (used on 4x4 trucks), you need the one that puts the zero on the scale at approx. 2 o' clock.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 07-12-2008, 06:28 PM
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You mentioned before that you got really close to the correct timing. You do realize that the engines true tdc is different than what you actually see on the tab. Is this a rebuilt motor? Was the cam degreed properly? Is it an old 355 or a blueprinted crate motor. All this may be too in depth for this problem. But having a good understanding of what goes on with timing will help. In most cases if you do what the under hood sticker says to do, all will be ok. If it isn't there find this info. in a manual. Get a shop manual for this vehicle and family of engines. I don't mean a Haynes or Chilton but the actual shop manual. Good Luck
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 07-12-2008, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cool rockin daddy
Amazing. Malc gives you excellent advice and a great article. You then flame him for questioning your dedidcation and your level of knowledge about YOUR OWN parts when you admit you didn't even read the instructions for your parts! Then you come up with the tired "this is an open forum and I am just trying to learn" B.S.!!! Now in your infinite wisdom you inform us all that you can't time your engine due to mismatched balancer and timing tab! Guess your original post wasn't needed, was it? Fix your mismatched parts, read the article that was suggested, and time your engine. Simple, no?

Another example of the new age rodder. Asks questions, doesn't understand the answers even though he says he is reading up on the subject, gets mad at somebody kind enough to post a reply, then diagnoses the problem himself by doing what he should have done in the first place; GETTING HIS HEAD UNDER THE HOOD OF HIS VEHICLE AND INVESTIGATING! That's the definition of hot rodding in my opinion. Far too many people are moving away from that I fear.
You must not have even read the entire thread.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 07-12-2008, 07:37 PM
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All this info is great. But if you are going to be posting negetively in a belittling manner just save it for a private message. Its clear that some of you know eachother, but i don't know you. So its natural that you buddy-up and sort of take sides.

I mean why make a post that would make somebody look stupid? I just came here and asked some questions. I understand some posts and some I don't. So if you don't want to bear with me than don't post. I don't see how much more complicated it is than that. You don't need to "chime" in in a demeaning manner. I came here having trouble timing my engine and I got some great info. I found out why I can't time my engine and then reposted in the same thread. I can't time it correctly because I have a mismatched balancer/timing tab.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 07-12-2008, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hubastank
You mentioned before that you got really close to the correct timing. You do realize that the engines true tdc is different than what you actually see on the tab. Is this a rebuilt motor? Was the cam degreed properly? Is it an old 355 or a blueprinted crate motor. All this may be too in depth for this problem. But having a good understanding of what goes on with timing will help. In most cases if you do what the under hood sticker says to do, all will be ok. If it isn't there find this info. in a manual. Get a shop manual for this vehicle and family of engines. I don't mean a Haynes or Chilton but the actual shop manual. Good Luck
I built the engine myself about nine years ago and sat for about three years without being fired. I put a new topend on the motor recently. Just a set of 882's, a new intake,carb,TIMING COVER LOL!,and headers. So thats where the confussion with the balancer and cover come into place. I really don't remember where the timing tab on the old cover was.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 07-12-2008, 08:33 PM
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good post

Quote:
Originally Posted by scapegoat
All this info is great. But if you are going to be posting negetively in a belittling manner just save it for a private message. Its clear that some of you know eachother, but i don't know you. So its natural that you buddy-up and sort of take sides.

I mean why make a post that would make somebody look stupid? I just came here and asked some questions. I understand some posts and some I don't. So if you don't want to bear with me than don't post. I don't see how much more complicated it is than that. You don't need to "chime" in in a demeaning manner. I came here having trouble timing my engine and I got some great info. I found out why I can't time my engine and then reposted in the same thread. I can't time it correctly because I have a mismatched balancer/timing tab.
Good post.

I have been reading here for several years, and posted a little a couple years ago.
One thing you will discover, there are not too many skilled old timers posting here anymore. Maybe 1/3 as many as 2 years ago.

All the bickering has run off many very good and valuable people.
This site has cancer and is dying a slow and angonizing death. Too bad. It could be GREAT.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 07-13-2008, 09:42 AM
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Unfortunately, I have read the entire thread. That is why I posted what I did. Maybe you should go back and re-read your posts. You might see where people get turned off by your attitude, not knowing exactly how to use the parts that you have (read the instructions, they are there for a reason), trying to tune something with mismatched parts or parts of questionable quality, then getting pissy when you should be saying "my bad. I will read up on my parts, get matching parts or parts in good shape (balancer), and then I will let you know if I solved the problem that most people feel I caused myself. Your questions about BASIC timing are found in the knowledge base on this site. Did you even look there?

Frenzel is right. A lot of the old timers are leaving this site. They don't want to be bothered with people that can't even make sure they have good parts on their engine before they wonder why they can't do something. They don't want to read one more question about "which cam will have the lumpiest idle" or "which muffler will sound the gnarliest". Who can blame them?
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