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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2009, 04:03 PM
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Like has been said wheelhop is a big contributor to this. It will bust a lot of stuff in a hurry.

Ditto to the front and tail only mounts, puts all the stress on the bellhousing.

The bolt-on bellhousing that attaches to the pump is a race certified piece that is very thick and is certified to serve as a flexplate and converter explosion shield. these are nicely made and fit very well. It would eliminate a lot of worries in your case and save you from needing to build another trans, but I don't think I would rely on it as the cure to your mount system. Is there room to use the "batwing" style mount at the bellhousing-to-block bolts that the circle track racers use?? These bolt on using the bellhousing bolts at the dowel pin area. Look for them at Speedway Motors to know what I'm referring to.
EDIT: Powerrodsmike, could you chime in and say why you think three mounting points(front of engine, rear of engine, trans tail) is bad?? A large majority of race cars use front plate, mid plate and trans tail with no problems and it is the preferred method used.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2009, 05:08 PM
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I was looking at buying the batwing style they will fit.

s should I do both the after market bell and mid mont?
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Old 06-13-2009, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnova72
EDIT: Powerrodsmike, could you chime in and say why you think three mounting points(front of engine, rear of engine, trans tail) is bad?? A large majority of race cars use front plate, mid plate and trans tail with no problems and it is the preferred method used.
A stock 34 pickup frame is not the stiffest frame around, and the motor/trans should be supported at 3 points to allow the frame to 'float" around the motor. If the frame twists, it won't try to twist around the motor, which is supposed to be fairly rigid. IMO, supporting the motor at 5 points, (2 in front, 2 at the bellhousing, 1 at the rear), would be asking for trouble in his application.
I can see a stock front crossmember in the OP's pics, and have no idea what kind of reinforcement was done to the frame. All those old rivets that hold that frame together allow even more flex. Chop out the center of the X member to clear a modern transmission and you get even more flex. The original suspension allowed all twist from motor torque and bumps and leaning taken up by 2 large balls at the end of the wishbones. Split the wishbones to clear a modern motor and trans and you start transferring more torsion into the frame. Put coilovers on the rear and you get even more torsion from the motor trying to twist the frame.
Those frames were designed to keep about 90 HP under control at blinding speeds of 60 or 70 mph.

Racecars typically have much more rigid frames.
JMO

Later,
Mikey
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2009, 05:59 PM
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Understood. not being a rod guy I didn't think about the Flexi Flyer frame. To the OP, the bell housing will cure the broken bell and save your trans, but may just put all that load into the front pump area and just break the case again there.

P-Mike, what about front mounts, mid-batwing mounts, and leave the bolts loose in the trans tail mount so it is there for weight support but will allow flex?
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2009, 06:07 PM
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I'd ditch the urethane mounts, and go for the rubber ones so it will allow support and still allow some flex when needed.
Even if the batwings had the urethane mounts, having rubber mounts at the front and rear would allow the motor to "teeter" some at the front and rear when the frame flexes.
That's my guess anyway. I never had to really think that one out.

If it were me, I'd build a set of frame mounts that cleared the steering, and use a set of the mid mounts. Or make up a set of bridge bars from motor to trans as I talked about in one of my previous posts.

Later, mikey
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Old 06-13-2009, 07:03 PM
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so get rid of the frront mountd and get side mounts some how I am getting a new case jst have to figure out how to mount everything.


ps its a double d frame that has been boxed
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2009, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keesey
so get rid of the frront mountd and get side mounts some how I am getting a new case jst have to figure out how to mount everything.


ps its a double d frame that has been boxed
Are there two of you Keesey ? Keesey1985? . Cole
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Old 06-13-2009, 07:13 PM
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Hate to even mention it, but I noticed a very minor thing (minor at this point that is, considering you have a busted tranny case!)- but remember to mount your ground strap to bare metal, not over paint.
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Old 06-13-2009, 07:40 PM
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yes one is my cell phone and one is my laptop.

why cant i run solid mounts all the way around and get a bullit proof trans case with a midmount batwing mounts. and do everything solid.

if i go soft rubber they blow out in a month and also the motor hops around like a fish out of water with rubber.

the front mounts are a hard urathene and the trans mount is a soft urathene.


i am lost and do not know were to take this.
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Old 06-13-2009, 08:03 PM
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If it were me, i would stay with the tail mount and build what I needed to use the side of the block mounting points. All domestic manufacturers changed to this style around the late 1950's when engines started making more power than a stock flathead or straight six.

You need to take care of the wheel hop or you will break anything you install.
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Old 06-13-2009, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keesey1985
why cant i run solid mounts all the way around and get a bullit proof trans case with a midmount batwing mounts. and do everything solid.
You can do whatever you want. Our recommendations are based on our experience, and what we've seen happen.

Unless you boxed the frame from front crossmember to rear crossmember, and tied the crossmembers into the boxing plates, you will still get some frame twist. If you did a 5 point mount it may work fine, and it could stiffen the frame by tying the motor in. I wouldn't do it, but that's just me. I do things that go against the best advice of others and sometimes they work out ok..sometimes they don't.

The rubber mounts in your current configuration probably go away because they are not spaced out far enough. Solid mounting everything could send a bunch of vibration and shock into the frame, and create localized stresses. Things start getting tore up like that. If the batwing mounts were urethane they would control the torque from the motor alot better than what you have now, but with rubber mounts at the front, the frame would still be allowed to flex and not hurt anything.

There is a reason the OEM's went to 3 point mounts. Any time you take something that is designed to flex, support weight, and isolate vibration, , and you defeat the design by adding rigidity to only one section, you are looking for problems.

Experience is what you get, right after you needed it the most.

Later, mikey
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2009, 08:25 PM
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i have a set of track bars but i have to modifie them to work. my axle sits under the spring not over like most track bars are desgned for. got them for free so i will modifie as needed, they will be on befor i hit the road again.
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Old 06-13-2009, 08:30 PM
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thanks mikey iam trying to get all possiblities from this as it is a big work out trying to get the motor out and then the trans. it just doesnt pop out like most people would think. i would much rather pull a motor out of a new mustang then pull mine out.

i am still trying to figure this out, run a soft rubber mount in the front and urethene batwings and a rubber tail. am i understanding you correctly?
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 06-13-2009, 08:36 PM
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Be glad it's not a 34 passenger car, those are worse than the trucks. You need to pull the trans out anyway, you are halfway there.

I gave my suggestions, and explanation why I suggested them.

Do you have a X member on that frame? The trans crossmember you show goes all the way across, and I don't see any sign of an x member.
Later, mikey
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Old 06-13-2009, 09:14 PM
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Quote:

Not the problem with the bell cracking..But it
Look's like your steering rod is bent.
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