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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2008, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j.d.brown.042964
Cam timing is definitely way off, but marks on sprockets line up 6/12,12/12-just not happening at #1 or #6 TDC. Evidently cam sprocket or crank sprocket is indexed wrong. With cam and crank punchmark dots at either 6/12 or 12/12, the #1 piston is NOT at TDC. Much closer to BDC, but not quite there.

For what it's worth, the crank keyway is at 9:30-10 o'clock position when alignment dots are 6/12 or 12/12, instead of the normal 2 o'clock position.
See my post in this thread. It is post #7. I have also attached an image concerning three position crankshaft sprockets. It is taken from a Speedway catalog. Left click on it for a larger view.

I just noticed something interesting. You are located in Alabama. I assume your engine was assembled by someone there. My engine was purchased from the seller in Huntsville, Alabama. Same builder??? Same assembly problem.
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Last edited by Frisco; 07-15-2008 at 09:23 AM. Reason: added comment at bottom of post.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2008, 09:20 AM
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Obviously the cam did NOT get degreed, or even eyeballed.

from #18
quote
Spoke again with shortblock builder who assures me I'll find them set properly-but I guess WE WILL FIND OUT SOON ENOUGH. Learned a valuable lesson about "taking for granted that interference wouldn't be an issue" on smaller/milder cam. quote

Last edited by ScoTFrenzel; 07-15-2008 at 09:27 AM.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2008, 09:44 AM
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Well guys; I got it figured out. Shortblock builder used the "straight-up" alignment mark, but had cranksprocket on the 4* advance keyway-thus giving 120* error. As far as degreeing cam, no- obviously not done. This is not a 9 second drag car and I don't have a fat wallet, so it won't be done now either-as I don't have a degree wheel or the money to buy one. I'll be happy if I can just get it back together and running well. Strangely enough, I still cannot find any other damage yet besides the 8 intake pushrods. It appears they bent immediately on first or second revolution, and any interference was minimal, just enough to bend the intake pushrods. I will be removing the 2-4-6-8 cyl. head and bringing the pair into Patriot where they will check them over for me. I live 15 minutes away from their facility, and I've been treated VERY WELL by those folks. I know many people speak negatively of these heads, but I've had no problems whatsoever with the heads or the company. (My incidental components however, are Manley and Elgin-only the castings are Patriot). In as much as I'd like to have Brodix or AFR, or own my own degree wheel-'YA JUST CAN'T DRINK CHAMPAGNE ON A BEER BUDGET-if you know what I mean. Anyways, I'll pull the other head, pull the cam out for relubricating (From inspect thru lifter bores I cannot detect ANY damage to the lobes whatsoever, but I'll inspect more closely upon removal) I thank you all for your insights so far, and hope to be giving you all some timeslips from A.I.D. (Ala.Int'l.Dragway) soon enough. To answer your question Frisco-NO, shortblock builder is in Iowa. I picked this up on last trip back to midwest for my Niece's wedding about 6 weeks ago. Thanks again everyone for your insights and information(s). From now on I'll build my own engines-If I screw something up I'll only have myself to deal with!!!!!. -Jim
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2008, 10:14 AM
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When you say that you live near their facility...is that where they cast the aluminum? Do the finish work? Assemble the heads? or is that just where they distribute the stuff from overseas?

I was under the assumption they just sold chinese stuff like everyone else

This will be quite a change in thinking around here if this is not the case.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2008, 12:43 PM
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wow

man thas bs that he set it up wrong I would defiantly be calling him up and saying someting at least just to get it off my chest but thats just me (dam loud mouthed italians) heheheh. Ya that would be super cool if inly damage was the push rods wow thought there would be more damage. I hope goes all well with the rest of the teardown.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2008, 03:57 PM
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DoubleV; Patriot's facility in Rainbow City Alabama (103 Rainbow Industrial Blvd. -off Al.Hwy.77) is also known as Alabama Cylinder Head, and it's a working facility for machining and assembly, as well as distribution. If you've ever seen the PINKS episode from A.I.Dragway with '81 Mercury Capri vs. '74 Chevy Vega, the Capri is Marty Witt-the owner of ACH/Patriot. Anyways, I live right down the highway US411 from Rainbow City in Ashville,Al. My wife gets her (many) prescriptions filled at the Walgreens in Rainbow City, so I go there often. When I decided to do the steamholes on my heads, I wasn't totally comfortable with trying to do it myself, so they offered to do them for me-I brought 'em in a few days later and they did them while I waited-and didn't charge me a dime. I've since had them fly-milled .0015 for fresh surface (which cost me $50), and now will be bringing them in for a quick inspection after this cam-timing fiasco. I called ahead to them today and asked what they might charge, and was told "unless it requires some serious time on our part-probably won't charge you anything". For me anyways, I would buy their heads again in a heartbeat, because I get to have face-to-face dealings with the staff and they've gone out of their way for me on more than one occasion. My castings and components weren't even "originally obtained" from them, yet they still treat me great-(and now that I've formed a client/vendor relationship with them, I feel as though I'm quite lucky to live so close by-18 miles/25 minutes away). I can't speak for others, only for myself, but Patriot Performance has given me EXCELLENT customer support. ...Anyways, I'll let all of you know when it's back together and running-hopefully by this weekend. As far as the engine builder is concerned- HE MADE A MISTAKE-he feels badly and is prepared to remit some $ to me to cover some or most of my costs, and that's really all I can ask for or expect. He's human and so are the rest of us,hell-we ALL make mistakes at one time or another! (Except for the certain few on this forum who for some reason or another believe they are perfect...JUST KIDDING...) I'm just glad that problem has been located and can be easily resolved. Gave me lots of good experience and one helluva good "lesson learned". -Jim
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2008, 04:30 PM
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I like your attitude towards this whole episode. Mistakes happen to all of us and he is making it right by apologizing and offering $$ to participate in the repair.
I had a similar situation just recently where I had a collapsed lifter in a brand new engine, plus a poor chinese casting Air gap knock off installed when I was expecting the real thing. The guy was 800 miles form my place and when I contacted him he stepped right up and sent me $400 to replace the intake and $1200 to relace the lifters. That's a stand up guy!!! and I would not hesitate to have him do more work for me in the future.
Good luck with getting your engine running. I'm sure you'll be through the trap in 9 seconds in no time.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2008, 04:52 PM
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If I get everything dialed in just right-I'll be happy with a 12.85 on street tires. After all, it's a rusted-out 4 door Caprice "sleeper".
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 07-15-2008, 06:53 PM
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Hats off to those few

I salute all those people that stand up for there mistakes even if some have no control over(mechanical failure due to bad parts from maufacture), they are far and few between, I am one to help out anyone that I have worked on their vehicle and karma is real and will get u good or bad it will come knocking on ur door.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2008, 12:00 PM
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Pulled cam out for close look and measurements-seems fine. Relubed and reinstalled. Can't believe it came through this unscathed, but it seems I just got very LUCKY. Heading off to Patriot now to have heads checked, and hopefully they will be fine as well. Will report an update later. -Jim
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2008, 06:52 PM
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Valves and heads checked out fine. Will pickup 8 new pushrods tomorrow (thu.7/17) and begin reassembly. Hope to fire it up Sat.AM.
-Jim
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2008, 09:00 PM
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:cheers: Here's to your success!
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2008, 09:09 PM
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I know it was a PIA Jim. At least it turned out to be a fairly cheap PIA. Good luck with the Reassembly
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 07-17-2008, 11:50 AM
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Sweet

Glad to here there was fairly minor damage and learned a few good lessons.
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  #45 (permalink)  
Old 07-21-2008, 09:43 PM
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Well; It's up and running! Still had a few minor issues-mainly the fact that this motor is TIGHT. Lots of break-in friction contributing to headers glowing during cam break-in. Ended up doing it in segments, about 6-8 minutes at a time. Already torched 3 of 8 plugwire boots to the point of bursting into flames! Went and got a new set and continued break-in, and of course added more timing to try to get as complete of combustion as possible before it gets into the pipes, and it has helped some. Aside from that-It sounds really good and tach's up nicely, just waiting for my chance to get timing "dialed-in" the rest of the way and take it for a drive, as I also changed stall converter to 2500 from 2100. Should work nicely, as cam comes on about 2200. Best of all- not one single leak of any type.This baby is sealed up properly, and it makes me feel good that I buttoned this one up myself. All-in-all, a trying but mostly enjoyable battle. Had to improvise a bit here and there, but with good results. Hope to run it at Ala.Int'l.Dragway within the next month to see what this rusty old 4dr. behemoth might do. (I'm shooting for 12.90, but I'll be happy with anything under 13.20)- Thanks to everyone for their input and support. Will keep y'all posted on continuing progress as I enjoy the break-in experience. -Jim
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