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-   -   Bernzomatic Mapp Gas torch q's (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/bernzomatic-mapp-gas-torch-qs-145024.html)

matt167 09-12-2008 05:50 PM

Bernzomatic Mapp Gas torch q's
 
I have a Bernzomatic mapp gas torch, that for small things, works good. and it will cut steel, up to about 1/8", if you heat it up, then lean it out with extra oxygen to make it hotter...

but the tanks are quite expensive, the mapp gas and oxygen tanks are both $7.50 each from Lowes, and the mapp gas is 16 oz and the oxygen is 1.4 oz... it takes approx 3 tanks of oxygen, for every 1 tank of mapp.

is there any way I could have the oxygen tank filled up for cheaper than $7.50?

also, the back of the mapp gas says, it contains somthing acetylene, is the mapp gas just standard acetlyene? and could I have that filled too?

oldred 09-12-2008 07:20 PM

You will find that it is illegal to refill those bottles. The Oxygen could be refilled from a regular tank but it would be EXTREMELY dangerous without the right high pressure fittings and hoses (and a full understanding of what you are dealing with) and in the case of that disposable bottle you would also need either a special regulator or refill it from a tank that has only as much pressure as the disposable one came with when full. DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES ATTEMPT TO REFILL THAT MAPP BOTTLE!!! :nono: MAPP is a modified acetylene mixture and while it is much more stable than regular Acetylene it still takes special equipment and process to fill the tank. I guess I should say that you should not attempt to refill that oxygen bottle either and I would strongly recommend not attempting it but unlike the fuel gas it actually only involves transferring Oxygen from a full tank to an empty one much like airing up a tank from a compressor. The problem is you would need to have lines and fittings that could withstand the pressures involved and it would need to be done from a tank that has pressure so low as to not over-pressurize the disposable bottle. Bear in mind this is tricky, dangerous and illegal but it can be done.

matt167 09-12-2008 07:50 PM

oh I see... I wouldn't be the 1 doing it for certain.. I would have taken it to a welding supply to have it done, but I forgot that the little bottles were illegal to refill, and certinly a company is not going to do something illegal like that, not when there liscenses involved to deal with the stuff...

I have the fitting that fits the small propane tanks to fill them, but I know that is a much safer deal.


now comes the question, how do I get rid of the empty bottles?

burnt olds 09-12-2008 08:13 PM

Bernzomatic Mapp Gas torch q's
 
them empty's make good silencers for your riffle .
but i don't tell how , i believe there illegal to .
but what ain't , if the government can't get paid .

oldred 09-12-2008 09:05 PM

Matt, Have you thought of the extra small "pony" tanks we call them for Oxygen and Acetylene? These are popular with plumbers and HVAC because of their compact size and they certainly are refillable about anyplace that fills gas bottles. You would not only have the economy of the refillable bottles but you would also have regular Acetylene and both tanks would last a heck of a lot longer, plus you would have the option of using a real cutting torch that would do anything the full sized outfits would do for short periods of time.

matt167 09-12-2008 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldred
Matt, Have you thought of the extra small "pony" tanks we call them for Oxygen and Acetylene? These are popular with plumbers and HVAC because of their compact size and they certainly are refillable about anyplace that fills gas bottles. You would not only have the economy of the refillable bottles but you would also have regular Acetylene and both tanks would last a heck of a lot longer, plus you would have the option of using a real cutting torch that would do anything the full sized outfits would do for short periods of time.

I was thinking the same thing.. the entire torch outfit with the pony tanks is only $250, and sold right above the mapp torch set at lowes...

oldred 09-12-2008 09:55 PM

With that little outfit and the right tips you could do anything from cutting an occasional piece of heavy steel to welding body panels. You could cut, braze, solder, weld or even heat parts to bend and even weld Aluminum or braze cast iron. Once you have an acetylene torch to use for a while and discover what you can do with it you will be lost without it! :)

matt167 09-12-2008 11:19 PM

I'v used oxycetelene torches b4, but only to cut simple things, and to heat and chill bolts to free them...

I bought 2 bottles of oxygen for the mapp gas torch because 1 of the nuts on the driver side strut rod of my '65 Rambler was really stuck.. 750 Ft/LBS impact wrench wouldn't crack it loose.. I tried, propane torches, all 3 that I have ( all diffrent tips ) and even tried them with just the mapp gas, but none of them worked good enough to break it free... so I fired up the Mapp torch, and got it loose..

it took 1.5 bottles of oxygen b4 I got the nut to move, and then the rest, was keeping it hot enough, to free it all the way.. then just enough oxygen left over to run a cutting test

old fords 09-13-2008 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldred
Matt, Have you thought of the extra small "pony" tanks we call them for Oxygen and Acetylene? These are popular with plumbers and HVAC because of their compact size and they certainly are refillable about anyplace that fills gas bottles. You would not only have the economy of the refillable bottles but you would also have regular Acetylene and both tanks would last a heck of a lot longer, plus you would have the option of using a real cutting torch that would do anything the full sized outfits would do for short periods of time.

I agree with this. It seems like if you used it a good bit it would pay for its cost quickly since you wouldn't always be buying disposable bottles

rogerchang 06-03-2009 02:01 AM

Mapp Gas
 
:welcome: MAPP gas is a mixture of various hydrocarbonsmainly methyl ,acetylene,propylene and propane.It produces a relatively hot flame (2, 960C)

farna 06-03-2009 08:19 AM

Hence the acronym MAPP. Acetylene tanks have acetone in them, which absorbs the acetylene gas when under pressure, and easily releases it when depressurized. The acetone is also soaked into a fibrous material inside the tank, further stabilizing the mixture. Acetylene gas by itself is very unstable and can't be stored safely. MAPP can, and is much hotter than propane.

The little outfits with the disposable cylinders are intended for hobbyists with small and/or infrequent jobs. If you rarely use the torch it takes quite a few of those $7.50 bottles to equal the cost of a filled oxygen cylinder ($90-$100 for the cylinder, $10-15 to refill, so let's go for the high of $115 -- $115/$7.50 = 15.33 small cylinders). The 20 cubic foot oxygen cylinders have to be tested or replaced every 10 years too, so there's a "shelf life". Every 10 years you have to swap it for a tested one at 1/2-2/3 the price of a new one. There's an equal shelf life/cost for the acetylene tank. Those $250-$300 outfits with "pony" tanks aren't filled, so add another $40-$50 to have them filled.

Is there an adapter so that the torch outfit can be used with a regular small oxygen cylinder? That might be the best of both worlds. Then you could use the MAPP gas (or even propane) with a regular oxygen bottle, since the oxy bottles are the biggest expense. I'm pretty sure there is (or used to be) an adapter. You don't normally see propane used with oxygen, but add oxygen to ANY flame and it will get hotter!

matt167 06-03-2009 08:31 AM

yea, theres adapters for them, I found them a while ago

schnitz 06-03-2009 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farna
Hence the acronym MAPP. Acetylene tanks have acetone in them, which absorbs the acetylene gas when under pressure, and easily releases it when depressurized. The acetone is also soaked into a fibrous material inside the tank, further stabilizing the mixture. Acetylene gas by itself is very unstable and can't be stored safely. MAPP can, and is much hotter than propane.



Thanks for the schooling, farna. Quite educational, and far less spam than the previous poster (rogerchang) had. Now, I'm glad to say I learned my new thing for the day.



In a while, Chet.

86GMC 06-03-2009 08:48 PM

1 Attachment(s)
no reason why you cant just run propane and oxygen mixture. It is all I use, and is plenty hot to cut 1 inch plate with my rig.

oldred 06-04-2009 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 86GMC
no reason why you cant just run propane and oxygen mixture. It is all I use, and is plenty hot to cut 1 inch plate with my rig.



It will cut OK and is cheaper to use than Acetylene but not only does Acetylene work better you can weld with it, something you can not do with Propane (you can however braze and solder with Propane). Acetylene is the most versatile of the available torch fuels and allows the user to do things he simply can not do with Propane, Propylene, Natural gas, etc.


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