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Old 04-08-2013, 02:46 PM
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Best - hardest - clear over color coat

Mechanically, I can paint a car in my sleep. But.... it's been 30 years and paints have changed.... a lot.

So, I'm getting back into it and 2K epoxy prime - Hot Hues thinned/activated color - epoxy clear is the way I'm a-going. I just painted the engine/trans and I couldn't be happier.

I've done a dozen or so test panels with House of Color 2K Speed Urethane Clear as a top coat, and I'm a little disappointed with the clear's set time, though I'm getting a finish that needs almost no wet sanding... good there.

But, it seems to be taking way too long to harden to the point that I can't leave a finger nail mark - 2 weeks. At 2 months this stuff is hard as glass. I'm very careful about mix ratios and following instructions, flash time, etc.

Anyone using a better or harder clear? Should I be concerned?

A little eye candy: (Hot Hues Razzle Red/clear).
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Old 04-08-2013, 03:46 PM
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You don't want a clear that's going to be rock hard...if it's to hard it will have a tendency to chip easier. The clear should set up faster than 2 weeks...although some VOC compliant clears do take a long time to cure through...even when baked.

For price and quality, try SPI Universal Clear...sprays great, excellent flow and it will set up faster than 2 weeks...SPI also makes a number of other clears all priced extremely well...give them a call, let the guys know what you want from a clear and they will hook you up with a clear that will meet your needs.

Ray
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Old 04-08-2013, 04:53 PM
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I Googled SPI clear and found a thread or two on H.A.M.B. and other places that sing high praises. Thanks for the tip.
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Old 04-08-2013, 05:29 PM
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I was a paint rep for several major manufacturer's...I've sprayed many different kinds of clear. SPI's line of products, not just there clears will rival the big boys...It is worth your time to try their clear...while your at it, try their Epoxy, it is the best hands down. Excellent build, great adhesion, fabulous rust protection, superior sanding qualities, a price that won't hurt the wallet and I need to tell you...before I recommend a product, I abuse it to test it's limits. SPI Epoxy stood proud, even with the amount of abuse I put it through. Another reason I like their Epoxy is that it comes in a dark gray, you, having been in the trade for many years will understand that it's easier to get a panel straight when you prime with a dark primer for the simple fact that any imperfections can be easily seen in the reflection. SPI Epoxy is the only primer I'm using now...no more etch or 2K Primer for build, SPI covers all those needs.

Give it a try...you will be impressed.

Ray
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Old 04-08-2013, 05:46 PM
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Dark grey primer.... yea.....
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Old 04-08-2013, 06:08 PM
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Oh, by the way Mike...I don't work for SPI...LOL

Ray
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Old 04-08-2013, 06:31 PM
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I apologize...I called you Mike...sorry bout that...I was thinking of another guy that I was talking Primers with...my bad, won't happen again.

Ray
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Old 04-08-2013, 07:38 PM
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SPI all the way for me and I am no apology an amateur and I can get a good job with it so the experts should have no issues. Black epoxy for chassis and under hood, grey for body and universal clear. If you need a good sanding/filler primer use the SPI turbo as it is ready to sand in 20/30 minutes. Universal clear will lay out wet and slick so mimimal buffing is needed..

Sam
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Old 04-09-2013, 04:51 AM
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I like and use SPI clears and to me the Universal is the softest
by far. that's why it can be buffed so easily, even weeks later.
If you want a hard clear, try their Euro.
I use that when painting dark colors like black because
It makes it so much easier to rid the swirls, because it's a harder clear.
(It's much cheaper too)
I like the Universal for my plastics, like bumpers, just for the
reason of being softer and more flexible.

If you want a clear that gets as hard as concrete in a couple of
days, try the Nasson by DuPont.
It's the hardest stuff I've ever seen.
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Old 04-09-2013, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
You don't want a clear that's going to be rock hard...if it's to hard it will have a tendency to chip easier. The clear should set up faster than 2 weeks...although some VOC compliant clears do take a long time to cure through...even when baked.

For price and quality, try SPI Universal Clear...sprays great, excellent flow and it will set up faster than 2 weeks...SPI also makes a number of other clears all priced extremely well...give them a call, let the guys know what you want from a clear and they will hook you up with a clear that will meet your needs.

Ray
and to think, a lot of these newer production clears are what he's asking for and they buff like crap, die back, and chip like you say.
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Old 04-12-2013, 05:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
I apologize...I called you Mike...sorry bout that...I was thinking of another guy that I was talking Primers with...my bad, won't happen again.

Ray
It also comes in black and white so you can make any shade you want...
...........Mike.....
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:11 AM
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One of the hardest most durable clears is PPG DCU2002. BarryK told me it is most like SPI's clear.

Vince
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:30 AM
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I have been using PPG's 2021 for 17 years now. Both of my bikes are painted with it. One thing i love about it, is that its rock hard in a day or so depending on which hardener you use. My bikes take a lot of abuse, i am not easy on my stuff, and they hold up fine.
As for buffing, one time was out of town and did not buff the paint until 2 weeks after it was sprayed and it buffed out so easy.
Last year a customer from 12 years ago sent me his old tins as the bike had been wrecked. I had to paint a new set for him. I got to keep the old stuff and one of the tanks only had a small ding in it. I simply fired up my buffer and the paint looks like new.
I love this stuff and feel its the most painter friendly clear there is. Plus its hard like glass and looks like it.
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Old 04-12-2013, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoAnnBortles View Post
I have been using PPG's 2021 for 17 years now. Both of my bikes are painted with it. One thing i love about it, is that its rock hard in a day or so depending on which hardener you use. My bikes take a lot of abuse, i am not easy on my stuff, and they hold up fine.
As for buffing, one time was out of town and did not buff the paint until 2 weeks after it was sprayed and it buffed out so easy.
Last year a customer from 12 years ago sent me his old tins as the bike had been wrecked. I had to paint a new set for him. I got to keep the old stuff and one of the tanks only had a small ding in it. I simply fired up my buffer and the paint looks like new.
I love this stuff and feel its the most painter friendly clear there is. Plus its hard like glass and looks like it.
Glad to see your posting JoAnn...I have a question for you, have you tried the PPG VOC compliant clears yet? I know you've used the Aquabase Water born base coat and that you can apply a non VOC compliant clear over top of it but my opinion on some of the new compliant clears is that they are harder to spray (to get that flat finish with a high gloss) and some take forever to cure. One in particular you need the metal temperature on the car to be 170 degrees F...not booth temperature but metal temperature in order for it to cure under baking conditions. PPG's always had a good line up of clears, from the concept clears...2021 to the Global clears...correct me if I'm wrong but I think the number is D893. The VOC compliant clears seem to leave a lot to be desired.

Ray
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Old 04-12-2013, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
Glad to see your posting JoAnn...I have a question for you, have you tried the PPG VOC compliant clears yet? I know you've used the Aquabase Water born base coat and that you can apply a non VOC compliant clear over top of it but my opinion on some of the new compliant clears is that they are harder to spray (to get that flat finish with a high gloss) and some take forever to cure. One in particular you need the metal temperature on the car to be 170 degrees F...not booth temperature but metal temperature in order for it to cure under baking conditions. PPG's always had a good line up of clears, from the concept clears...2021 to the Global clears...correct me if I'm wrong but I think the number is D893. The VOC compliant clears seem to leave a lot to be desired.

Ray
I have not yet used it so I cannot give any info. I can tell you this tho, PPG is brutal when it comes to testing their products before they are released to the jobbers. When a PPG product is released, it is something you can use. Paul Stoll, PPG's head tech guy, is a harsh judge of products. He speaks his mind and gives his honest opinion on things. This kind of honesty helps insure that new products are the best they can be before they are released.

Me, I tend to stick with what works for me. Products I have a history with. Last year I started using 2000 on some of my projects and I like it, for some things. But for show quality finish clear that I know will look great and wear like iron for 20 years, 2021 is the way to go.
But for some projects 2000 works great.
I do need to be more open minded and try new products, I have a few new clears from PPG that I will be trying this summer, but before I use them on customer's jobs, I test them on panels and learn how they spray.

That is the number thing many painters do wrong when they use a product they have not yet used. Most products will do the job you want it to do, BUT, first you have to learn how the product sprays, how it reacts under certain conditions.
How long does it take to dry?
How does it like to be sprayed?
Max amount of coats? (We custom painters usually do more than 2 coats.)
How long before its hard?
What does it take to really flow it out?

I never just use a new product on a customer's project. Never, cos every time I do, it bites me. So I slow down and learn.
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