[FASTCHEVY]

LOL I guess we will have to keep the cheap oil around for brake in lube.



So Partsman, how do you get the oil clean?? What else are you hiding from us? lol

[Partsman]

FastChev I do not know any dealers in Dallas but I bet there are some.
You were wondering about the idea of not changing the oil ... well this is how it works. The vehicle is equipped with both the full flow filter and a bypass filter (added on). Then the filters are changed at preset mileage points ranging from 10,000 miles up.
They also take a oil sample and have it tested by a lab. As long as the lab reports that the oil is serviceable it is left in the vehicle.

The oil is maintained at the mark on the dipstick and the only additional oil that is added is what it takes to bring it up when the filters are changed or the vehicle actually uses some.

If you do not have any luck finding a dealer let me know and I will see that I can do to get you what you need.

While I'am at it I have a question ... been thinking about starting a newsletter for shop owners but not sure who or how many would be interested in something like that. Any thoughts?

[FASTCHEVY]

Originally posted by Partsman
FastChev I do not know any dealers in Dallas but I bet there are some.
You were wondering about the idea of not changing the oil ... well this is how it works. The vehicle is equipped with both the full flow filter and a bypass filter (added on). Then the filters are changed at preset mileage points ranging from 10,000 miles up.
They also take a oil sample and have it tested by a lab. As long as the lab reports that the oil is serviceable it is left in the vehicle.

The oil is maintained at the mark on the dipstick and the only additional oil that is added is what it takes to bring it up when the filters are changed or the vehicle actually uses some.

If you do not have any luck finding a dealer let me know and I will see that I can do to get you what you need.

While I'am at it I have a question ... been thinking about starting a newsletter for shop owners but not sure who or how many would be interested in something like that. Any thoughts?

Lab testing does not seem feasible to the average Joe, how much does that cost over time?


Yeah I like the idea of a newsletter. Make a new thread about it, and see how many like it.

[Partsman]

killerformula.... rings are very complex systems true. However in respect to mileage and good oil I purchased a GMC mini van with a 4.3 V6 several years ago with about 85,000 miles on the OD. That vehicle now has 160,000 plus on it and it has had AMSOIL in it from the first oil change that I did .... what it had before I do not know but I do know I am pleased with how it has held up with two filter changes and one oil change per year since I got it.

Some people have found that they use less oil after changing to AMSOIL that they did before. It often depends on the situation. You should be sure that the engine is sludge free if you are going to change type/brand of oil. Use a flush and or change filters and oil several times to clean out the crap that WILL come loose when you put an effective lubricant in where a lesser one has been.

[brainsboy]

Partsman,


So that means in 6 years you put on 75,000 with only 2 oil filters, and 6 oil changes? That comes to 12,500 miles per oil change and 37,500miles per filter..

My god think of how long that motor would of last if you had taken care of it.

[B-210]

This is getting good,

killerformula;
I recently sold a 91 pick up with 385,000 miles on a 305 and never a head cover off. Granted they were highway miles, but it always got the good stuff. Wear is not good, if your rings do not seat in a few hundred miles there is something wrong.

Partsman;
The bypass filter is actually a "side stream" filter where oil is taken from the discharge of the oil pump, filtered and returned to the sump. This works well for long haul diesel (or gas) engines and maybe engines used in harsh applications such as off road racing. Don't see many of these on cruise night.

Johnsongrass1;

Read the opinions and concluded people use what they are comfortable with, and what is accessable to them. This is not to say NAPA, Delco, Wix and others mentioned are not good but you don't jump in the truck and bee bop to the corner to grab an Amsoil filter.

[daveh]

Wix are the best filters out there. They exceed manufactures standards and cost about $6.00 bucks. Any Western Auto has them.

[brainsboy]

Originally posted by daveh
Wix are the best filters out there. They exceed manufactures standards and cost about $6.00 bucks. Any Western Auto has them.

How do you know? What tests did you perform to know this? What equipment did you use for testing? How is it the best? Can we see some of the tests numbers you based this statement?



I have to agree with B-210 its a matter of opinion and which one your comfortable with most

[thunderbird]

AMSOIL nor any other synthetic oil will PREVENT ring seating - period! I recommend that if you have a new engine to use regular hydrocarbon oil for 500-1,000 miles then change to a synthetic. There are a lot of wives tales out there regarding these products and for the most part - untrue. Yes, I am an AMSOIL dealer and I personally use it in everything I own. We have used it for many years in racing and have never had an oil related failure. Our engines are built using chrome-moly rings (not suggested for a street engine) and are run for one race on somebody else's oil then switched to AMSOIL for the remainder of the season. Engines that develop 755 horsepower with 13:1 up to our monster grenade motor (16:1) pound crankshafts like a jack hammer and still we have zero failures. We use AMSOIL filters and guess what - the oil is not contaminated to any degree and remains in the engine for an entire season. We change the filter after every 2 shows, top 'er off and forget about it. Really, it doesn't matter what brand of anything you use, it's a matter of you being comfortable with what you do. I am saying - do your homework, do some research and you won't be dissapointed. Oh yes, a by-pass oil filter, which all are, simply means that oil that is pumped will not flow through a filter because of oil galley restrictions after the filter, so oil is by-passed and returned to the sump or pan. Simple, your engine oil passages can not handle all the volume and pressure an oil pump produces, something has to give. If a filter was totally "free flow", you'd basically have very little oil pressure. Typical recommended oil changes in Europe are now 15-18,000 miles!!! Why do we change oil every 3,000 miles in this country? Hey Partsman - good for you, I too am a partsman and I really check stuff out before it gets attached to my hot rod.

[4 Jaw Chuck]

I certainly like the idea of constant bypass filtering at a submicron level. I think that filtering oil to only remove anything larger than 10 microns is doing next to nothing for the longevity of the engine. If you are only going to filter at such a low level then regular drain and fill is a better option in my opinion...chuck the filter.

Perhaps this filtering system is something I would look at for my diesel Jetta, keeping clean oil in it seems to be a lost cause since the high particulates and sooty residue from diesel fuel conspire to keep the oil black even after flushing.

How does this filtering system remove water and acids from the oil? I would think that getting those contaminants out of the oil would be the hardest thing to remove and require more oil changes than "once every 148 000 miles!", short of centrifuging out these contaminants or "cooking" them out I am unclear how this filtering system can perform that task?

I once removed oil residue from a sump tank that had been oil contaminated for a long period of time and I can tell you removing water from oil is almost as hard as seperating a water soluble acid from that same mix. Our centrifuge/filtering cart ran nonstop for a month trying to separate the components for disposal and in the end I think it was perhaps 70% successful. Much of what was disposed was water since the separation is next to impossible (companies pay by the pound), ask any one who has tried to clean up a beach with an oil slick...oil and water don't mix but trying to remove all of the oil or all of the water after they have mixed is an exercise in futility.

Is there some kind of detergent additive that is used to accomplish this at certain intervals...like say just before filter change time?

[thunderbird]

Personally, I refrain from using any additives in my engines and I have a great story regarding that. The way you run 148,000 miles is by using a dual - remote oil filter set up. Change filters every 7,500 to 10,000 miles and top off the oil. Oil is sampled and gets a clean bill of health. I have seen the test results and this does work. The secret is the oil filter. No you can't remove water from the inside of the engine, this is a natural by-product of heat, combustion and cold steel. However, the water contamination is so small and insignificant that it presents no danger. Engine heat will get rid of most of it any way. Diesels get dirty because of soot and this is only a coloring and doesn't mean the oil is contaminated. Soot is finer than 1/2 micron or there abouts and will not harm an engine - it only colors the oil. The way to determine if you actually need to change oil is by doing an oil analysis. Regular maintenance and some attention to detail adds greatly to the life of an automobile. I see just about every scenario you can imagine in the wonder world of cars and I can tell you that 75% of most failures or problems is directly related to the person holding the steering wheel !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HJCHEVY400]

Does the size of a filter relate to how effective it can filter oil? I was told that by switching to a long style filter on my SBC instead of using a short style, that the filtering surface is increased, thus increasing the filtration quality of the oil. Would that be true, or is filter size significant?

A silly question perhaps, but does oil run constantly through the filter during engine operation, or does it just start to bypass at a certain pressure level?

[Doc68]

Some additional two cents:

For no one promoting or selling Amsoil, there sure is a lot of promoting and selling of Amsoil going on.

Having your oil sampled and tested to see if it is dirty sounds reasonable for race cars but is completely out of the question for the average Joe. The cost is way too prohibitive. You would be better off just changine your oil and filter every 3-5,000 miles. Heck, do it every 1,000 miles and REALLY be safe.

All five pages of this thread make for interesting reading but it still comes down to opinion. Quote all the research and facts that you want, the superiority of one oil or oil filter to another cannot be proven beyond a reasonable doubt once you factor in cost, use, and other individual considerations. Remember what Mark Twain once said about research: "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics."

[brainsboy]

DOC68 Good suggestion!!!

Change oil more often then 3000miles. The SAE recomendations for changing oil is based on motors that were tested in a lab under simulated highway use. Anything in the performance or towing realm would benifit from changing oil more often.

[killerformula]

Good point. For daily driver cars, changing conventional oil regularly and using a decent, off-the-shelf filter is a tried and true way of making a motor last. There are many reasons to change oil other than break-down. Contamination from condensation, carbon build-ups and acids as mentioned before play a big role in lowering engine life. I've seen motors go 3-400,000 miles on regular oil and maintenance, hell, we probably all have. It doesn't matter how good your oil or your filter are, contaminates are still going to get into your oil! No IC engine has a ring that seals perfectly, eventually you're going to have a high enough concentration of particles that are smaller than the filter can catch doing damage to your bearings. I'm sure AMSOIL is good stuff, but what you need to prove your point is an independent test over several engines and types against other motor oils.

Its generally accepted that most engines using today's lubricants have "virtually no appreciable wear for periods exceeding 100,000 miles of operation." That's technology and regular maintenance. Not magic.

K