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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 04-03-2011, 11:53 PM
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Uh oh. Seems I'm too late for the party. I think you're going to be VERY disappointed with the fit of the mustang skin. I went through a couple of them before I said screw it and found a used quarter.

Since you said waiting for a sale, I assume you bought it at CJ's or something?

Every skin I had was either too long overall, or too short at the front bottom. And you can cut and splice and butt weld it to the correct shape, but in the end, I found used better...
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 04-04-2011, 12:04 AM
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I know many people who have done these skins just fine. Reproduction panels aren't perfect but I'm not scared of them. The damaged panel I received fit fine in the test fit.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 04-04-2011, 08:09 AM
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Good work, you are doing a super job. I personally don't like the "butt weld clamps", they don't get the seam tight enough. But many people use them. You really have to do short tacks and let them cool well NATURALLY. If you push it or cool the welds they WILL pull the panels together sinking in the area.

Brian
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 04-04-2011, 05:43 PM
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I've heeded the advice given here very carefully, and am probably being excessively careful with my welds. I'll put about 10 tacks on and then come back later and put more on. I've been adding welds to it for 3 days so far and it's still not complete...that's how far I'm dragging it out!
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Old 04-04-2011, 07:41 PM
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Sounds like a plan to me!

Brian
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Old 06-12-2011, 08:24 PM
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Ok, back to this thread again. I ended up just getting a full quarter and cutting it down to make my skin.

The test fit was good, got everything screwed down how I liked it. I ended up taking my cut off wheel and cutting the old metal right along the top of the seam of the new metal, making a perfect seam, and butt welded the entire thing. I actually think this way would have been way easier than doing an overlap weld.

Well, I'm here now to deal with the woes of butt welding. Even though I spaced my tacks and let them cool naturally, I've got some pretty serious warpage. One of the pics lets you see it real well.

I went back and reread what puggy offered....on dolly hammering, then shrink. I would like more advice on this. I finished everything up then did not even touch the warpage until I see what is recommended here.

The problem I get with on dolly hammering is it makes a real low spot where I was doing the hammering, even though I'm trying to hold the dolly tight against the back. Am I doing something wrong?

Given what you see in the pics, what would you guys do. The high peaks and low areas are very obvious to feel out.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2012, 08:59 PM
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I had the same problem after butt welding in Quarter panel replacement skins. I used extreme caution when welding and still had some warp. It was only on one side where the gap was larger. I used hammer on dolly stretch the mig welds. I'm by no means an expert this is just a before and after.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2012, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizer
Ok, back to this thread again. I ended up just getting a full quarter and cutting it down to make my skin.

The test fit was good, got everything screwed down how I liked it. I ended up taking my cut off wheel and cutting the old metal right along the top of the seam of the new metal, making a perfect seam, and butt welded the entire thing. I actually think this way would have been way easier than doing an overlap weld.

Well, I'm here now to deal with the woes of butt welding. Even though I spaced my tacks and let them cool naturally, I've got some pretty serious warpage. One of the pics lets you see it real well.

I went back and reread what puggy offered....on dolly hammering, then shrink. I would like more advice on this. I finished everything up then did not even touch the warpage until I see what is recommended here.

The problem I get with on dolly hammering is it makes a real low spot where I was doing the hammering, even though I'm trying to hold the dolly tight against the back. Am I doing something wrong?

Given what you see in the pics, what would you guys do. The high peaks and low areas are very obvious to feel out.
By the looks of the first photo you didn't skip around at all, that is the problem and why you got warpage. Those welds shouldn't be next to one another like that, they need to be spread out, one at the front, one at the rear, let it cool, one in the middle then one at the rear, let them cool, one at the front then one 3/4 way, then let it cool one a foot back then one between the 3/4 and the rear, skipping all over and letting them cool completely.

Now, you want to grind the welds down to thin them out. You can't do any hammer and dolly on those welds. Be careful and use a nice sharp disc or you will create more heat and possibly more problems.

Shrinking those spots can be tough being you can't get behind with a dolly very easy while you hammer on the outside. Good old heating and cooling with air or water may be the way to go. Do this right at the weld that caused the high spot. A small dime sized spot heated up then cool is all you want. Now without a torch or a stud gun or something to heat, it's going to be tough. This may be a good time to look into a shrinking disc. That is a prefect spot for this tool, you run it over the metal and cool it, it's basically a "Heat block" and you only heat the high spots. http://www.ghiaspecialties.com/


Brian

But this may
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2012, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
By the looks of the first photo you didn't skip around at all, that is the problem and why you got warpage. Those welds shouldn't be next to one another like that, they need to be spread out, one at the front, one at the rear, let it cool, one in the middle then one at the rear, let them cool, one at the front then one 3/4 way, then let it cool one a foot back then one between the 3/4 and the rear, skipping all over and letting them cool completely.

Now, you want to grind the welds down to thin them out. You can't do any hammer and dolly on those welds. Be careful and use a nice sharp disc or you will create more heat and possibly more problems.

Shrinking those spots can be tough being you can't get behind with a dolly very easy while you hammer on the outside. Good old heating and cooling with air or water may be the way to go. Do this right at the weld that caused the high spot. A small dime sized spot heated up then cool is all you want. Now without a torch or a stud gun or something to heat, it's going to be tough. This may be a good time to look into a shrinking disc. That is a prefect spot for this tool, you run it over the metal and cool it, it's basically a "Heat block" and you only heat the high spots. http://www.ghiaspecialties.com/


Brian

But this may
Yes, what I did was start at the front, then middle, then end, let them cool, then go place the next weld after the original first one. I thought I had read this method somewhere which is why I started doing it. Because--once again much like with my ORIGINAL filler sanding techniques in my other thread--I used to do my welds exactly as you described here, that is by splitting the difference. I never thought in a million years the way I had been doing it would cause what it did.

I figured the reason I got the warpage I did was because my metal didn't have enough of of a gap between the two panels at those spots (they were close).

Now, you're talking about shrinking the metal. I thought this entire time I should be stretching it because I shrunk it by welding it. If I'm understanding you correctly you're only talking about shrinking the peaks of the metal. Should this take care of the ripple as it extends farther down the quarter as well, or am I just SOL there?

I have a stud gun (which I use for shrinking), and I also have a 4.5" shrinking disc (which doesn't work well for me at all, but I think it's due to my angle grinder shaft having a slight wobble from an imbalanced wire wheel at one time). When I use the shrinking disc I'll notice that only one half of the disc is ever showing evidence from contact with the metal, probably due to the wobbly in my angle grinder, which means I'm not getting effective heat build up with the disc.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2012, 09:35 PM
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Get a metal straight edge that you can bend over that area and show you what is high and what is low, it looks like most is high. If that is the case you will need to shrink it down.

Brian
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 04-21-2012, 11:23 PM
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Josh, Wouldn't it be easier to strip that purple paint off rather than cutting it off?

John L
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2012, 04:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizer
Yes, what I did was start at the front, then middle, then end, let them cool, then go place the next weld after the original first one. I thought I had read this method somewhere which is why I started doing it. Because--once again much like with my ORIGINAL filler sanding techniques in my other thread--I used to do my welds exactly as you described here, that is by splitting the difference. I never thought in a million years the way I had been doing it would cause what it did.

I figured the reason I got the warpage I did was because my metal didn't have enough of of a gap between the two panels at those spots (they were close).

Now, you're talking about shrinking the metal. I thought this entire time I should be stretching it because I shrunk it by welding it. If I'm understanding you correctly you're only talking about shrinking the peaks of the metal. Should this take care of the ripple as it extends farther down the quarter as well, or am I just SOL there?

I have a stud gun (which I use for shrinking), and I also have a 4.5" shrinking disc (which doesn't work well for me at all, but I think it's due to my angle grinder shaft having a slight wobble from an imbalanced wire wheel at one time). When I use the shrinking disc I'll notice that only one half of the disc is ever showing evidence from contact with the metal, probably due to the wobbly in my angle grinder, which means I'm not getting effective heat build up with the disc.

I purposely welded my hood filler panel in large increments straight thru, no skipping. First pic shows the welds and high and lows after hitting with a sanding board.





I then started working the welds, by grinding off the proud and stretching carefully.




If I overstretched, I used the shrinking disc. Stretching and shrinking were only used close to the weld as the material beyond the HAZ was neither shrunken or stretched from the welding.








Its not 100% yet but I'm pretty sure if I keep at it, it will be fine. I did it this way to learn about bringing overheated metal back from the dead.

Shrinkage is what distorts panels. The more heat applied the more shrinkage that occurs. The shrinking disc will be needed only after you over stretch that shrinkage when working it back.

BTW, your shrinking disc with only 1/2 contact will probably still work. Spray some water right after hitting with the disc. If it gives off steam, its still working.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2012, 07:37 AM
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Ahh, Lizer, let's listen to Pugsy, I gave you poor advice.

Pugsy, I find it so damn hard to work around those MIG welds, you do need to grind some of that away don't you? You can't get close enough to the HAZ with an "on dolly" method with that MIG weld there or am I thinking the HAZ is closer to the weld than it is?

Brian
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2012, 08:06 AM
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HAZ is heat affected zone. I'd say in the case of my TIG welds, its about an inch and a quarter wide. You don't want to work the material outside of this area as there is no damage done to it. I did find myself going outside of it on the passenger side as poor panel sizing and overstretching gave me a fit.

Grind down any type of weld before planishing as you mentioned previously. I understand MIG weld is a little more brittle, so don't do as I do , do as I say and try to not overstretch it.
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Old 04-22-2012, 08:22 AM
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And this is another problem (probably why I was directing him to "cave and pave" ) How in the living hell do you plannish this when you can't get your arm around the back to hold the dolly? You have to have two people, and really get in sync (not easy to do) or do you have another way? Please tell me you have another way.

Brian
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