the best place to put quarter skin seam - Page 5 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Body - Exterior
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #61 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2012, 09:36 AM
John long's Avatar
Slow but willing learner
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Age: 69
Posts: 2,108
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 993
Thanked 1,309 Times in 1,066 Posts
Brian, when I made my post I was not disagreeing either. I meant low heat into the panel, not a low heat weld. Short and fast is correct and that takes enough heat for fast penetration. Sorry if I did not make my self clear.

John L

    Advertisement
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #62 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2012, 09:39 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,131
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,301
Thanked 1,143 Times in 1,011 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by John long
I do disagree with Brian only about the gap. I personally like a little gap. maybe a 1/16 of an inch. I can bridge the gap with a much smaller, cooler weld and better control the heat. This comes from my personal style and 25 years of becoming set in my ways. That does not mean I don' think others methods will work.

John L
I'm thinking if you are planishing it the gap doesn't matter? Pugsy?

But if you are welding it "bodyman style" like I am talking it will shrink more. Maybe that is the difference?

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #63 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2012, 09:44 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,131
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,301
Thanked 1,143 Times in 1,011 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by John long
Brian, when I made my post I was not disagreeing either. I meant low heat into the panel, not a low heat weld. Short and fast is correct and that takes enough heat for fast penetration. Sorry if I did not make my self clear.

John L
No problem John, don't ever worry about that, we are tossing stuff out there. If there aren't different ideas being tossed into the mix how in the hell can we learn?

If I wanted to get ONE point of view, I'd read a book. We are here to DISUSS things and see many different ways to get the job done.

And to learn there are better ways than we are doing it too. I personally WANT to be shown better ways that the way I do things, if it makes sense it makes sense, you can't disagree when it makes sense.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #64 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2012, 09:48 AM
123pugsy's Avatar
HOT ROD...... FROM A CHRYSLER?
 
Last wiki edit: Metal shaping
Last journal entry: FLOOR BEADS
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Markham,ON
Age: 52
Posts: 2,365
Wiki Edits: 29

Thanks: 416
Thanked 255 Times in 223 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
I'm thinking if you are planishing it the gap doesn't matter? Pugsy?

But if you are welding it "bodyman style" like I am talking it will shrink more. Maybe that is the difference?

Brian

I don't MIG so I have no comment on the gap.

When TIG welding a gap more filler is needed and therefore more total heat involved.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #65 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2012, 10:09 AM
John long's Avatar
Slow but willing learner
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Age: 69
Posts: 2,108
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 993
Thanked 1,309 Times in 1,066 Posts
Thanks Brian, this would make a good new thread. "how do you like to join your panels".

Let me try to explain why I personally like the gap.

First, if you don't have a gap the panels will overlap with even the least amount of shrinkage. You can planish the spot weld and use the gap as a guide.

Secondly, it requires less welding heat to bridge that gap and still get off quickly making it easier for me to control the heat into the panel.

Thirdly, If you have the entire panel joined by nothing but small spot welds and can keep it planished as you go those last spot welds will not hurt you as much. The most shrinkage, as you know, always comes at the end.

When I chopped my first car I did it all with an acetylene torch and hammer welded it. it was a 49 merc. Lots of welds. Lots of hammer and dolly. The MIG welder is the quickest and easiest way to weld but the main draw back, as you know, is the welds are very hard and difficult to planish. No red hot weld waiting to be worked. That makes controlling the shrinkage throughout the process even more critical.

John L
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #66 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2012, 10:19 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,131
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,301
Thanked 1,143 Times in 1,011 Posts
Ahhhh, you are working each weld as you go. The shrinkage is easier to control and the gap may not matter, you are overcoming the shrinkage with your planishing. I am talking letting it cool, again, with a bodyman style I have been working on late models for years and in those cases there is VERY often no access to the back side on these butt welds, so the closer the gap the better.

I have to tell you, I too did a lot of work with the torch before I got my MIG. My first chop top of course was all torch. And I plan on going back to it when I finish up my truck (same truck, different cab) to my torch just for old times sake. I have a "jewelers torch" attachment that is pretty neat, I call it a "Poormans TIG". I have only used it a few times and using .023 MIG wire as filler rod you could lay a tiny little bead with a pretty small HAZ.

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #67 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2012, 10:24 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
Posts: 1,138
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 63
Thanked 103 Times in 87 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by John long
Agree Brian. The problem Josh has is there is no way for him to get behind the panel to properly planish it and his welds were really hot. Unlike the panel Pugsy is demonstrating where he has access to properly metal work the panel. You are correct also about spot welds with as little heat as possible.

Forgive me for jumping in here. Josh is already getting good advise from knowledgeable people. Mostly I felt I owed him an apology which he graciously accepted.

John L
I reject the apology; it was unnecessary
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #68 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2012, 10:36 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
Posts: 1,138
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 63
Thanked 103 Times in 87 Posts
While you guys were debating away in here, I stepped out to work this weld, then stopped as a few questions arose.

First off, I CAN get access to the back of the entire weld. It is not fun, it is not easy, it is hard on the back, legs, forearms, any body part you name it. Mix t this with having to push the dolly against the back of the weld, then strike it from the front with a hammer...literally 30 seconds of doing that and I'm wiped.

I took a paint stick so I can lay it along the weld and see every low spot. I'd like to know how you guys are planishing your welds. I have a slapper (which I don't know what I'd do without), and a hammer and dolly set.

1. Do I stretch the LOW spots so those come up, relax the metal and allow the high spots to ease back down?

2. Do I have to give the high spots some gentle persuasion with the slapper to ease them back down?

I've found the best dolly is if I stick the slapper in the back and go at the front with a hammer to do the actual stretching. When I think I'm getting close, I move a dolly to the back and move to the slapper on the outside to try to 'shape' the metal more.

3. How HARD should I be hitting? Right now I'm giving gentle blows, harder than a tap but lighter than a smack. I'm really worried that if I'm doing a smack and I miss my target I'm screwed.

I'm debating if I should post a video so you guys can watch my technique.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #69 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2012, 10:42 AM
John long's Avatar
Slow but willing learner
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Age: 69
Posts: 2,108
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 993
Thanked 1,309 Times in 1,066 Posts
That's cool. I keep threatening to go back to the torch for a project but probably never will. Too spoiled by now.

I do work my spot welds as I go but there really is no advantage. I just do it to keep busy while the panel cools. A MIG weld is cold by the time you can pick up your hammer and dolly, unlike a gas weld. I noticed Pugsy said he always TIQ welded. I never learned how but have played with a friend's. It is similar to gas welding to the extent you are using the arc to generate a puddle and adding filler to the puddle. Like gas welding you can watch the puddle follow the heat. As I understand it, one of the advantages to a TIG weld is it is softer and easier to work (planish).

Being the impatient kind of guy am, I sometimes will use shop air to cool the panel, holding the air hose 2 or 3 feet from the panel. Once the panel is cool there is no more change that is going to occur so I can move on. Don't miss understand though. It would take me also an entire day to weld that quarter. There is no quick way.

I wonder if in a few years we will be flanging and gluing them. The problem would be hiding the repair. Now there is a subject you should be an expert on.

John L
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #70 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2012, 10:47 AM
John long's Avatar
Slow but willing learner
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Age: 69
Posts: 2,108
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 993
Thanked 1,309 Times in 1,066 Posts
You are a good man Josh......... No matter what anyone else says.

Thanks,
John L
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #71 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2012, 10:49 AM
MARTINSR's Avatar
Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: San francisco bay area
Age: 55
Posts: 13,131
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 1,301
Thanked 1,143 Times in 1,011 Posts
I start "off dolly" with the dolly behind the low spot and hitting the high spot near it to level them out. But stretching the low spot up by thinning it is the next step.

As far as tools, I have a number of Martin "dollies" like the MT-1052 and MT-1024 then another one like the MT-1052 but with a larger square head on it.

Click here

Brian
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #72 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2012, 10:57 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
Posts: 1,138
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 63
Thanked 103 Times in 87 Posts
Wow you have your own line of body tools? If you were in showbiz that'd be cologne that we'd be looking at.

The 1024 is exactly what my slapper is. I had borrowed one like the 1052 from a body shop who gave me a lot of help when I lived in Iowa but unfortunately I lost those contacts. That dolly with the handle was difficult to use because it was so heavy to extend and hold for this purpose.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #73 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2012, 10:58 AM
John long's Avatar
Slow but willing learner
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Age: 69
Posts: 2,108
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 993
Thanked 1,309 Times in 1,066 Posts
LOL.....There you go, trying to embarrass me. The brand name on my tools is spelled Taiwan. You, of course, are a professional and your tools are an investment in your trade. I just hate being a poor boy.

Actually God has blessed me even if I'm not rich.

John L
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #74 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2012, 10:58 AM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
Posts: 1,138
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 63
Thanked 103 Times in 87 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by John long
You are a good man Josh......... No matter what anyone else says.

Thanks,
John L
Even though whatever They are saying is probably true
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #75 (permalink)  
Old 04-22-2012, 11:02 AM
John long's Avatar
Slow but willing learner
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Age: 69
Posts: 2,108
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 993
Thanked 1,309 Times in 1,066 Posts
Josh, Could you cut some access holes in the inner panel that would allow you to get behind the panel?

John
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Body - Exterior posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Second Skin oldcarsdave Interior 5 11-10-2009 06:55 AM
Quarter skin questions... 7StangG2 Body - Exterior 29 08-07-2009 11:52 AM
full quarter pannel or a skin/ patch - 69 z28 the dan Body - Exterior 11 09-15-2008 09:13 PM
Quarter Panel Skin - Where to put seam cab Body - Exterior 2 03-11-2007 09:25 PM
Bonding fiberglass to metal... quarter skin beemdubya Body - Exterior 7 10-07-2005 07:58 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.