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Old 04-12-2004, 09:39 PM
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best primer and sealers to use

I know this has probably been beat to death, but i am new at this and want to get right the first time.
My 1948 olds is being stripped to bare metal, all body work done, welding nd fillers , now come time to prime
What is the best way to go and the products to use in what order.
can i use an etching primer over body fillers and old paint and primers
The car will not be painted final color for probably a year or so.
thank-you so much for all the help guys
My daughter and i really appreciate all the help and great advice
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Old 04-12-2004, 10:39 PM
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epoxy primer, like PPG dp90lf,
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Old 04-13-2004, 04:26 AM
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Best

Deuce hit it on the money use only an epoxy primer over the bare
metal.
Unless your using lacquer or enamel as your color coat
you should not use an acid etch primer.

When you get it stripped to bare metal email me off line and I will
send you "The Perfect Paint job" It gives step by step from bare metal up. It was written for Restorations and Street rod builders only not everyday paint It does apply to any paint brand.
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Old 04-13-2004, 09:28 AM
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Id like a copy also.Could you e-mail me also?Thanks Don
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Old 04-13-2004, 10:02 AM
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Re: Best

Quote:
Originally posted by BarryK
Deuce hit it on the money use only an epoxy primer over the bare
metal.
Unless your using lacquer or enamel as your color coat
you should not use an acid etch primer.

When you get it stripped to bare metal email me off line and I will
send you "The Perfect Paint job" It gives step by step from bare metal up. It was written for Restorations and Street rod builders only not everyday paint It does apply to any paint brand.
So basicly no etching primer if you're using an epoxy color coat.. But if you are using lacquer or enamel, then use etching primer? What about if you're using an enamal color coat, but epoxy primer? Do you use etching primer on the bare metal? Is there anything wrong if you do use the etching primer in this case? What is it that is bad about using the etching primer?
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Old 04-13-2004, 10:21 AM
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I use etching primer under polyester hi-build primer. Works great. In fact as I do my block sanding and I cut through the gray polyester primer and hit the baby potty yellow etching coat, the sand paper doesn't cut into the latter without extra effort.
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Old 04-13-2004, 11:45 AM
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Can of Worms

Boy i open a can of worms here so will do my best to answer all the above comments.
First of all acid etch primer never locks down= spray a coat and a week later you can wash it off with lacquer thinner. Now we would all agree that Urethane reducer is hotter than lacquer thinners so when you apply your 2k Primer over the acid etch whats it do? Reflows it! 6months or later depending how much sun the car gets you will see baby pinhead bubbles pop up, they do get bigger with time. This is aways blamed on the clear but how you can tell is cut with a razor blade and you will see what looks like rusted water, blow it out and it will go right to bare metal.

The other question "epoxy over the acid etch" yes that does help to prevent the problem.

The other statement "polyester primer over acid etch" Be aware
polyester primers have a lot of acetone in them and MOST polyester primers say NEVER use over acid etch! There are a couple that say you can but I would be cautious.

With todays epoxies there really is no need to chance it.
I'm in 500-600 body shops a year and a lot of them are full time restorers or rod builders and rare that you find one of these guys still using it as you only need to get burnt once on a $40,000-120,000 dollar job!
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Old 04-13-2004, 11:51 AM
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Re: Best

Quote:
Originally posted by BarryK
When you get it stripped to bare metal email me off line and I will send you "The Perfect Paint job" It gives step by step from bare metal up. It was written for Restorations and Street rod builders only not everyday paint It does apply to any paint brand.
i'd love a copy of that too enegative@yahoo.com
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Old 04-13-2004, 12:12 PM
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Barry, thanks for the heads up. Actually I have been doing cars like this for several years and haven't seen any of the horror stories you mention. I have been more than pleases with the performance of etching primer. I am doing my pickup with this method as we speak and will report on the results. We get a LOT of good old hot sun here in Bakersfield so will give it a good test! My Willys paint job was done this way about 7 or 8 years ago and except for my frequent abuse of it with dropped tools and such, it looks like new.

P.S. Urethane thinners and lacquer thinners are both 'hot' but in different ways. I do a lot of styrene model building and of course never use lacquer paint on them since it simply dissolves styrene plastic. However I can use urethane without any type of protection since it does not attack styrene. Strange since urethane thinner otherwise smells and acts like lacquer thinner.
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Old 04-13-2004, 12:14 PM
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Maybe I'm getting a little behind.. I'm strictly a hobbyist and the engineer in me prompts me to be interested more in the how and why of stuff like this, but it does affect projects I have lined up down the road..

One of the bits of information I'd ran across on one of the hot-rod shows I had in the background from Speedvision or whatever they call it since ESPN bought the channel was that you want to use a zinc-based bare metal primer on panels that are going to be welded together because the zinc will allow the electricity to flow.. It sounded like it made sense, but was wondering about any experienced folks opinions.

I did most of my learning perhaps 10 years back in a series of community college "classes" I took (although it was mostly about having the facilities to work on my cars with the instructor around for guidance whenever I needed it)

For that matter.. my experience has gotten a little rusty as I scaled back over the years to finish the engineering degree and get married and get a house and all that stuff.. I remember that you don't want to use lacquer over enamel.. or was it the other way around? I'm not sure anymore.. I need a refresher course!
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Old 04-13-2004, 12:23 PM
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Don't get me wrong, because you used the acid etch does not mean the problem is guaranteed to happen.
You hear people all the time say I used lacquer primer and never had a problem. And thats true. This stuff was great 20 years ago
but is just out dated with the new materials.

For the Zinc weld through primer. Yes always use for corrosion
protection between panels. Less it Sparks the more zinc it contains and the better the product is.
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Old 04-13-2004, 10:06 PM
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wow

i quess i opened up a whole can of worns on this topic
I have posted a pic of the car before i got it home so you can see what i am working with
My plans are sinple hehe i think.
I just want a cool car when i am all done and i don,t see to many of them around. As you can see by the pic, the car has sat for some 30 years in the same spot, the frame is solid as is most of the body, floor needs work and rockers. I am sandblasting most of the car to bare metal, then sanding it all done , . I wanted to know abou the sandable primers, rather then using a ton of spot putty to fill minor scratches and such.
Thanks for all the advice it is really good and very helpful to me and my 16 year old daughter is learning a ton from this site.
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Old 04-14-2004, 07:21 AM
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Heh.. reminds me of my station wagon when I got it. It was one of them out-in-the-field cars, and from the outside everything looked fairly decent, but I manage to trick myself when I checked out the floor.. The carpet was messy but still there and the ground-cover situation made looking under the car impractical.. I got in and stomped on the floor and I was like "Hey, this is solid!"

Turns out I was stomping on the frame, the floor was not there to stomp on.
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Old 04-14-2004, 08:03 AM
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i already know the floor is sho, the rockers need to be replaced but that was the fun is. making a cool car out of something some one throughs away. For the first car and the first project of hers i think she and i will both learn a ton, will be nice when all done
Photo shop is getting a good workout hehehe
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Old 04-14-2004, 07:48 PM
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I can't believe no one has mentioned a product called "Z Chrome Rust Defender". It is a primer surfacer that is about half the price of PPG K36. At last years SEMA show I managed to talk at great length with rod builder Troy Trepania(sp). I was really interested in how he achives his outstanding paint jobs. He told me about this stuff, and it is great. It has it's own guide coat, so you do not have to use a contrasting ghost color to final sand with.

Vince
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