[John68040]

Originally Posted by deadbodyman

Sure, its like the other member said its only a car and how much time and money you want to spend on a repair is totally up to you. To start with you have to remove all the undercoating and find ALL the rust or you can,OR you can just hit the spots you see with a wire wheel and convert them.It all depends on how nice you want it ,how long you want it to last and how much time your willing to put into it...
Hey,theres even a guy in town that painted the bottom of his floor to look like diamond plate,it was impressive but not very practical or cheap...

I really want to just remove it all. I figured rust converters were too good to be true.

It may be just a Pinto, but I want to keep the car on the road for a long time. What should I do in the areas where I can't get Ospho/naval jelly or a wire wheel? Like in seams, the 'frame' rails, etc?

[deadbodyman]

Ospho is a liquid if you put it in a pump bottle and turn the nozel to a stream you shold be able to get it just about anywhere...if you cant reach it theres not much you can do except douse it good and let it dry ,mabee use an air blower to blow it even further.at the factory they dip the body in a big tank...You got a swimming pool???? ......I'm kidding..

[mitmaks]

I have flexible spray wand that attaches to 3M undercoat spray gun (has bottle on bottom) and you can get it in anywhere. Nozzle has 360 spray pattern so it's perfect for treating inside frame rails, etc.

[TucsonJay]

Originally Posted by 50bowTie

They do convert the rust to "something".

You CAN paint this "something".

But there is a good chance that someday sooner or later that acid will creep through your paint and do nasty things. Why risk it? If you can abrade the metal until it's shinny clean, and cut out the cancer spots/weld in patches,...

An Epoxy will last many more years than any "Rust Converter" could ever dream of.

The "something" is iron phosphate. Rust is "iron oxide"... an ongoing process. I imagine all of these products (like Phospho) contain phosphoric acid... which converts the iron oxide to iron phosphate. It is dead, and just lays there forever. The acid is not a problem if you can follow the directions on the can. Another trick is to wipe it with degreaser to help neutralize any residual acid.

I will add that right now I am completely redoing an AMX, which was stripped to bare metal and then epoxied. It had been a number of years, and when I sanded through the top coats, and into the primer, I found little buds of rust growing every where. Further investigation show that it was rust under all of the bodywork too!

We took it all off, and started over. A simple treatment with the antique "metalprep" (which contains phosphoric acid) would have saved the guy at least $5000. I have used it for about 40 years (hundreds of paint jobs) without a single failure. You will hear lots of new ideas and technology... but I like simple, inexpensive solutions that work.

I would recommend any phosphoric acid product that performs this simple conversion process. It has been proven for longer than most of the painters on here have been painting.

Just remember... rust starts on a microscopic level, which you can't see. Play it safe, and add some cheap insurance.

[John68040]

Originally Posted by TucsonJay

The "something" is iron phosphate. Rust is "iron oxide"... an ongoing process. I imagine all of these products (like Phospho) contain phosphoric acid... which converts the iron oxide to iron phosphate. It is dead, and just lays there forever. The acid is not a problem if you can follow the directions on the can. Another trick is to wipe it with degreaser to help neutralize any residual acid.

I will add that right now I am completely redoing an AMX, which was stripped to bare metal and then epoxied. It had been a number of years, and when I sanded through the top coats, and into the primer, I found little buds of rust growing every where. Further investigation show that it was rust under all of the bodywork too!

We took it all off, and started over. A simple treatment with the antique "metalprep" (which contains phosphoric acid) would have saved the guy at least $5000. I have used it for about 40 years now without a single failure. You will hear lots of new ideas and technology... but I like simple, inexpensive solutions that work.

I would recommend any phosphoric acid product that performs this simple conversion process. It has been proven for longer than most of the painters on here have been painting.

Just remember... rust starts on a microscopic level, which you can't see. Play it safe, and add some cheap insurance.

So would you recommend stripping to bare metal, treating with phosphoric acid, then using epoxy?

[TucsonJay]

I don't personally use epoxy... so I don't have an opinion about that combination.

I would call a tech line, and speak to a company techie about it.

[John68040]

Originally Posted by TucsonJay

I don't personally use epoxy... so I don't have an opinion about that combination.

I would call a tech line, and speak to a company techie about it.

But you can treat bare metal with phosphoric acid?

[shine]

wax and grease remover will not neutralize acid. only water will do it. pull any tech manual and check if you like. ppg, dupont doesn't matter . they all stress to neutralize their metal prep with water.

[shine]

by the way. acid is not to be sprayed unless you have excellent safety equipment. iso's will kill you someday but acid will shut you down right now.

[rsfyj]

The type of rust converter I use does not need any water directions say apply 2 coats letting it dry for 1/2 hr then paint with a good oil base paint, Nice black coat just apply and let dry

[Lizer]

Do me a favor; next time you use that converter, sand it off the next day. You'll start seeing orange dust. The dust is orange because there is still rust. Because not all the rust was converted.

[shine]

if your painting storage tanks in an industrial setting with oil based enamel then i guess your fine. but urethane's and epoxy are not oil base products. most guys here are trying to do a nice job on their hotrods using base/clear or ss urethane's. as for what rust converters say in their marketing hype i will ignore. i go by paint mfg tech only and every one of them says the same thing about their metal prep. it must be neutralized with water .

[deadbodyman]

Originally Posted by TucsonJay

I don't personally use epoxy... so I don't have an opinion about that combination.

I would call a tech line, and speak to a company techie about it.

when you use an acid product (even etch primer) fillers (bondo) wont stick too well You can even blow the filler off with an air blower...epoxy sticks very well to it so you would want to treat the bare metal and rust then epoxy ,then use the filler on the epoxy.
Epoxy alone wont stop rust even if its wire wheeled and cleaned up well ....sand blasting might clean it up enough to use epoxy alone but personally I dont think its enough and to be totally honest I dont think the guys out in the dry desert climates or the guys that build the high dollar restos know for sure either since none of those cars ever see any weather and they are always in a garage and if ever driven only on the nicest of days.....I'll bet I can epoxy over active rust and put the car in the shop and it'll never come through either but leave it out in the weather and its a whole different story.
Just for the record using a pump spray bottle works fine (never use a paint gun) but use a paint mask with charcoal filters the same type you would use when spraying acid etch primer or todays paints..I would think just the label "ACID " would be cause for caution a reading the directions....

[Lonnie Jones]

I have used "Corroseal" for years both on cars and industrial equipment and it works. Do not sand blast, but knock off any loose rust with a wire brush. Apply "Corroseal" to rusted areas with a brush. Let it dry then apply sanding sealer and sand where necessary. I have used this on several cars I refurbished and have had very good luck with it.
I have been buying it from an industrial marine supple-house.

[Old Fool]

best rustconvertor for surface rust = convert it to dust, abrasive blasting is best.