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Old 10-12-2004, 11:16 PM
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BG Pump, Fuel Cell Braided Lines

I have a BG 220HR fuel pump, which calls for a -10 AN line from the tank to the pump/filter, a -8 line to the motor then a -10 return line.

The only decent fuel cell I could fit in my Nova has -8 outlets and inlets, and it looks like a big deal to change them. My question is, do I really need a -10 return line from the BG pressure bypass back to the tank?

The correct way to fix it would be to replace the fittings at the tank - since simply using adapters to use -10 hose still leaves the -8 (about 1/2") inlet size at the tank. It would take enlarging the holes and welding larger outlets/inlets right? Doesn't sound fun with a new aluminum foam lined tank! I couldn't find a tank with -10's.

How critical is this -10 return hose requirement?

Thanks, Larry

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Old 10-13-2004, 11:03 AM
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To change the outlets on your fuel cell to -10an use a bulk head fitting like this high flow unit from Russell...(Jegs number) 799-670870 or Earls (Summit number) EAR-983210.
As far as return line size goes...you want to have ZERO restriction so a 1/2in or 5/8in line will be fine. Take a look at this site- www.centuryperformance.com/fuel.asp
That should explain it better than I can here.
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Old 10-13-2004, 11:36 AM
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Usually they recommend the tank to pump line and return line bigger then your main line. You can run -8 pump& return lines with -6 main line. The size of the main hose is going to depend on how much horsepower and fuel demand you have. Running -10 and -8 lines is just what they suggest to get the most out of your pump. You didnt say what type of motor or your horsepower but as an example -6, -8, -10 main lines is not going to make a difference in a motor that makes only 400hp.
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Old 10-13-2004, 01:41 PM
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Interesting site Speed, thanks.

Brains, you're information seems reasonable, I'm building a Weiand Street 8-71 blown 383 and the Demon blower carbs came with dual -6 fittings. This is mostly a streeter but should draw on some serious 'street' HP from time to time.

Unfortunately, I've already ordered the parts for -8 from the tank to the motor and -8 back to the tank as well, so I'll find out whether it works.

I haven't received the tank yet but suspect the -8 fittings are welded in, which complicates things a little, we'll see.

If the BG member (who was that masked man.....) reads this, please jump in here, I'd really appreciate your input.
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Old 10-13-2004, 02:12 PM
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From what I understand the purpose of the return line is because race fuel pumps have more PSI and to keep the fuel and the pump from heating up they release the pressure. This as well comes down to how fast you run in the quarter mile. If you were to have an 8 second quarter mile race car with a 6psi fuel pump, when you took off the line to accelerate you would notice that your fuel pressure went to 0psi and you soon run out of gas. This is because your accelerating with more g-force then the pump can push against the weight of the fuel. To get around this they make pumps to run in the 10, 14, 20 psi range and more GPH. The problem is these pumps heat up not only the fuel but the electric motors, so they design them with larger return lines. If you are going to run the same size line I would keep the PSI as low as possible for your needs to help prevent any problems.
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Old 10-13-2004, 04:32 PM
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Plumbing Size

On the BG220HR Hot Rod pump you've got to feed the pump with a minimum of a -10AN line. A -8AN line will not flow as much fuel, and can cause cavitation, or starvation into the fuel pump.

As far as the return line goes we recommend the -10AN return so that it is not a restriction at low speed when the engine is not burning alot of fuel. If the return is too small you have to open the bypass further than normal to achieve your proper idle fuel pressure. Then when you step on the throttle the bypass is open too far, and your fuel pressure can drop. By using the line sizes as recommended with the pump it will keep the pressure variance to a minimum, and keep give the pump a longer life.

As far as HP rating vs. plumbing, running a system like this on an engine with less HP, and trying a smaller line would actually make the situation worse, since the engine won't be using as much fuel (bypassing more than a high HP engine would).
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Old 10-13-2004, 05:35 PM
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Yep, I understand that already BB, thanks.

Tech - It makes sense, and I know you guys have done tons of R&D to make these things work correctly. I haven't seen the tank yet, so don't know how much is involved in replacing the inlets and outlets to a -10.

Consider this - the outlet sump has two -8 outlets. Could I use both, going to a -10 'Y' block and feed the pump enough that way, with a -10 line out of the 'Y'? If so it would mean I would have to dirll out or enlarge only the return fitting at the tank.

Also, if I'm not mistaken the return outlet on the fuel bypass regulator looks like a -8 to me, nowhere near the size of the pump and filter orifices, which are all -10's. If so, what's with that?

Thanks for the fast reply above guys! Larry

Tech, I went to BG's site again and see the BG-400 pump only requires a -8 return, can you enlighten me on that setup? That seems a ittle confusing to me, except I see if returns before the carbs. Your site doesn't show a diagram for the 220HR with dual carbs, would I still plumb it as shown for a single carb, with the bypass after the carb inlets? I'm using the Weiand "Y" block setup.

Can I put the 220HR bypass before the carbs and use the -8 return line?? I'm not trying to reengineer this thing, just that there's only one more place to put that twenty feet of -8 braided hose I just bought, and that would hurt a little......

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Old 10-14-2004, 07:15 AM
Technical Support Barry Grant
 
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If you're dealing with a plastic cell it's real simple to change the outlet fitting, and add the return line. Most cells don't have a return fitting, but just a -8AN vent (which you still need). It will be much less expensive to change the bulkhead rather than purchasing the extra line, Y-Blocks, fittings ect. It will also be a much cleaner setup.

The bypass is not going to be the restriction, it's the 20' or so of return line that becomes the restriction with all of the surfice area. An easy way to think about it is if you put your lips together, and blow even though the hole at your lips is small you can still breath out pretty easy, but now try it through a coffee stirrer. Same size hole, a lot more restriction.

The BG400 system is a Drag race use only system, where we are running high pressure from the pump to the regulator anywhere from 18 to 30 psi so the bypass on the pump is not returning as much. Also it has much less restriction since it's right at the fuel cell.

Please let us know if you have any other questuions. www.barrygrant.com
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Old 10-14-2004, 11:18 AM
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Thanks again. My luck, I purchased an aluminum foam lined cell, searching every manufacturer I could locate, all I found was cells with -8 fittings! I can imagine welding a new fittings would destroy the innards. Without having the cell in hand, I'm curious if the fittings can be unscrewed and replaced with the -10's. That would depend on the size of the NPT threaded insert of course, it's an RCI cell and I don't know if the -8 and -10 would use the same size diameter where it screws into the cell.

Would using the -8 fittings on the return cause a problem with restriction if I used -10 line reducing it to the existing tank return fitting at the tank? It doesn't make sense even comp cells are -8!

Does anyone know the approximate I.D. of the two lines? I realize wall thickness factors into it, and the AN sizing is O.D., but I understand some (Earl's in particular) lines are larger I.D. than others.

I will use a -10 for cell to pump one way or another.

Thanks, I'll drop this thread after today, sorry if it seems repetitive.

Larry
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Old 10-14-2004, 11:25 AM
Technical Support Barry Grant
 
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You should be OK using the larger line with just the smaller restriction at the fuel cell itself. Most of the welded fittings in the cells are AN bungs, not NPT. If it's a welded female bung, you can get an adapter to the next size larger AN fitting.
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