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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2012, 11:02 AM
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seriously ? you would tell a guy with a tow truck to order aluminum square port heads?@ 2 grand

tow trucks idle for hours in the winter or during rescue (perhaps high idle while on a hand throttle or operating hydraulics/pto) If you said buy severe duty valves for reliability,that makes sense,,,

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2012, 11:29 AM
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" I'm wanting to get all the horsepower and torque out of this engine that is possible and still drive on the road with no problem"

"what are the best heads cam and intake I can get to give me the most towing power?
and finally what kind of horsepower and torque do you think the set up will make"



These are exact quotes taken from the the OP original post. He asked "what are the best heads, cam and intake I can get to give me the most towing power?" I think most would take this question as what is the best heads, cam and intake that will give me the MOST down low tq. I believe what I have suggested is exactly that.

Then he asked "I'm wanting to get all the horsepower and torque out of this engine that is possbile and still drive on the road with no problem" I believe that the combiniation I have suggested will work with nearly factory everything, and will still produce pretty of vaccum. thus I actually suggested what the OP requested, where as those who keep posting about crappy factory heads ignored the OP's request!

I dont see anywhere on the OP's post where he mentions this being a "tow truck", I believe his exact words where "I'm building a '79 4x4 dually with a turbo 400 transmission and I'm putting a '89 454 in it, the truck is just gonna be used for towing a couple vehicles at a time" This does not sound like a tow truck to me, it doesn't sound as if this truck will be used in any rescues, or need to idle for hours at a time during the winter... This sounds like a guy who has a 79' 4x4 dually who wants as much horsepower and torque as possible so he can use it to tow a 1-2 car trailer, while still maintaining street manors. Notice how the underlined sentence goes perfectly along with what the OP stated!

Where did this guy ever mention operating hydrualics/pto, cause I never saw that!

If this truck is truely a "tow truck" then I would never recomend using a gasoline engine period! you need the longevity of a diesel.


Then as far as alm heads go, I use them on my race car, and I have them on my truck (from the factory) I never have any issues with heat in either vehicle what so ever. That truck has pulled a 9,500lb camper up the mountains and the temp never buged. I have had my race car, in stop and go traffic for over and hour and she never got above 190.

Last edited by my87Z; 12-31-2012 at 11:39 AM.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2012, 11:55 AM
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I think the OP should clarify what he wants to use the engine for exactly. If he wants to use Al. heads thats fine,I still would sugguest oval port heads. I think that using fuel injection over a carb would be a very good choice.The cams we agree on using a mild one,though that might change too? A six speed auto may offer enough benefits to warrant a swap
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2012, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
I think the OP should clarify what he wants to use the engine for exactly. If he wants to use Al. heads thats fine,I still would sugguest oval port heads. I think that using fuel injection over a carb would be a very good choice.The cams we agree on using a mild one,though that might change too? A six speed auto may offer enough benefits to warrant a swap
I can agree with what you have stated here. The FI would be a good choice, but can be a very costly one. I dont have any problems with the aftermarket oval port heads, but I dont think it is ever a good idea to use the original 40yr old gm castings unless you are on a very tight budget.

If iron oval port heads are a must then I would suggest the WP Merlin 269cc Oval port heads. These heads average around 10% better flow + velocity at all lift ranges and around 15% more at .550-.600" than the old factory Oval port heads. Yes a pair is going to cost you around 1500.00, but when you stop to think that you will probably spend around 400-500 (easily) for a set of used GM casting oval ports heads that still need to be cleaned up and rebuilt which will end up costing you another 500-600 for a total of around 1000+ for what is still a 40yr old GM head design with no modification or advances in technology. That 1500.00 is money well spent, and flat out will always out perform the old GM castings.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2012, 02:03 PM
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you say efi is $$$$$$$$$ but are ready to spend 2k of this guys cash on head he don't need..
got it..
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2012, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
you say efi is $$$$$$$$$ but are ready to spend 2k of this guys cash on head he don't need..
got it..


again guy, this guy asked for the most horsepower and the most down low tq posible while maintaining street manors. Did I give him advice based exactly on what he asked for? YES! Did you? NO, because the set up I suggested would out pull and out perform the set up you suggested from 1500rpm all the way to 5000rpm. So please tell me agian how you gave him such better advice than I did when I tailored my advice to exactly what the OP asked for, where as you gave him advice based on what you thought he should do.

when you ask about getting the most horsepower and the most down low tq possible while maintaining street manors, without ever mentioning a budget or the need to use stock heads then true quality aftermarket products are exactly what you are going to get.

Please Gearheadslife, come at me with some more of your vast knowlege. I can do this all day long!


Truely if the guy has the know how and the time, then if he want to go with FI then I would say his best bet would be to find a junkyard latter model 3500HD with an 8.1L and the Allison 1000, this should only cost around $2500 total but would require some fabrication, and wiring. I'm not sure how easy these are to find either but it would be a viable option worth considering.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2012, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
you say efi is $$$$$$$$$ but are ready to spend 2k of this guys cash on head he don't need..
got it..


since this is an 89' 454 it should already have a TBI set up but the problem is that the TBI set up on it only meant to around 230-250hp/ 350-380tq max. From my understanding they aren't that easy to manipulate. So he would need to go with an aftermarket FI set up, something like this:

Edelbrock Pro-Flo 2 EFI Systems 35510 - SummitRacing.com

with just a quick search this was the cheapest EFI set up with a dual plane intake that also included the ECU, and it cost around $3200.00 to have it delivered to your door. Now let me ask you, are going to spend $3200.00 on an engine and use poor factory GM castings which wont even keep up with the flow of the EFI or would you spend the extra $1800-2200.00 on buying a set of heads to match the power potental of the EFI set up.

I'm gonna guess you're the "550hp-350ci with double hump heads" kinda guy
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2012, 03:10 PM
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ya, okwhatever.
holley efi 1700.oo
msII 300.oo + sensors, and he already has a tb
msIII 800.oo + sensors """"""""""""""""""""""""

or he could get a newer t/b from the j/y

my last tow 489 made 600+ ft lb at 3400rpm..
with poor old peanuts
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2012, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
with poor old peanuts
bingo........
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2012, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
ya, okwhatever.
holley efi 1700.oo
msII 300.oo + sensors, and he already has a tb
msIII 800.oo + sensors """"""""""""""""""""""""

or he could get a newer t/b from the j/y

my last tow 489 made 600+ ft lb at 3400rpm..
with poor old peanuts
A TB which is designed for a low output, low emissions 454, Holley EFI 1700.00 with out ECM, to take the old ECM from the tbi454 and get it reflashed will cost $$$$.

And I love your statment about "489 made 600+tq at 3400rpm with poor old peanuts"

208cc peanut port heads that dont flow over 235cfm at any lift can't even support 600tq, they really can't even support a 489 at 3400rpm. That statment is about the same as saying "my 383 with 150cc 881 heads made 500+tq at 3400rpm" C'mon man I'm not some flunkie you can't BS you way with.
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Old 12-31-2012, 03:56 PM
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454

wow i understand where the dude is coming from when he talks about buying new heads and what ever else. yea thats cool if u have the money but if not ya run with u got and make it work. its eather going to go or blow. if it does then u go from there to decide what to do next. its called budget racin.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2012, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my87Z View Post
A TB which is designed for a low output, low emissions 454, Holley EFI 1700.00 with out ECM, to take the old ECM from the tbi454 and get it reflashed will cost $$$$.

And I love your statment about "489 made 600+tq at 3400rpm with poor old peanuts"

208cc peanut port heads that dont flow over 235cfm at any lift can't even support 600tq, they really can't even support a 489 at 3400rpm. That statment is about the same as saying "my 383 with 150cc 881 heads made 500+tq at 3400rpm" C'mon man I'm not some flunkie you can't BS you way with.
sorry, fail 1700.oo complete
summit
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2012, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my87Z View Post
A TB which is designed for a low output, low emissions 454, Holley EFI 1700.00 with out ECM, to take the old ECM from the tbi454 and get it reflashed will cost $$$$.

And I love your statment about "489 made 600+tq at 3400rpm with poor old peanuts"

208cc peanut port heads that dont flow over 235cfm at any lift can't even support 600tq, they really can't even support a 489 at 3400rpm. That statment is about the same as saying "my 383 with 150cc 881 heads made 500+tq at 3400rpm" C'mon man I'm not some flunkie you can't BS you way with.
"
well then the dyno lied.. some owned these, some play with "math"
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2012, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gearheadslife View Post
sorry, fail 1700.oo complete
summit



Holley Multi-Point Fuel Injection Power Pack Kits 550-705 - SummitRacing.com

I can only guess this is similar to what you are talking about, and if you actually look down the specifications list you will see that it says ECM not included! SORRY YOUR FAIL!


"well then the dyno lied.. some owned these, some play with "math""

No, I've not heard this one about a 1000 times.

I dont think my 570hp/535tq, 93 octane pump gas 385 in my 87' camaro running 6.90's @ 93mph and 10.90's @ 124mph, would be considered "playing with math", now that was dyno and track tested. Only at the fact that I know how to do the math it takes to "build" and engine was I able to accomplish this.

I think we have hijacked this post long enough
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2012, 07:07 PM
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why would 230 cfm intake flow,not support 600 pounds torque?The 454 would make peak power(under 500 horse power)under 5,000 rpm.
could someone work the horse power numbers backwards ? use 4800 rpm and 500 horse power and see what torque number comes up for the equation?
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