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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2012, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
why would 230 cfm intake flow,not support 600 pounds torque?The 454 would make peak power(under 500 horse power)under 5,000 rpm.
could someone work the horse power numbers backwards ? use 4800 rpm and 500 horse power and see what torque number comes up for the equation?
That wasn't with the peanut port heads that I was talking about.

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 12-31-2012, 08:04 PM
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I found no peanut portheads that had flow numbers lower than 226 cfm. My info was based on 156 and 236 peanut port heads?weakest exhaust ratio was 64%
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Old 12-31-2012, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
I found no peanut portheads that had flow numbers lower than 226 cfm. My info was based on 156 and 236 peanut port heads?weakest exhaust ratio was 64%

Factory 156 peanut port heads with 195cc intake runners have a max flow of 226cfm at .600 and then 227cfm at .700" and their efficiency rating is 70.8%. The 236 peanut port heads with 208cc intake runners have a max flow if 235cfm at .600 and .700", their efficacy rating is 70.6%.

To put those flow numbers into perspective a pair of 906/062 vortecs with 170cc runners flow about 227cfm at .500" from the factory. These nor the BBC peanut port heads in factory form can support 500hp. A general rule of thumb is that what ever your max flow cfm is, multiply that by 2 and that will give you the absolute max hp those heads can support, and that is with an engine with pretty much 100% VE. Most decent street engine only have about 85% VE. So take the 236 208cc peanut port heads which flow 235cfm at .600, under 100% VE they could make 470hp max but considering most decent street engine on have about 85% VE that number is more realistically 415-425hp.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 01-01-2013, 03:30 AM
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actually the correct formula is just over 2.2 X CFM so 227 cfm could make over 500 hp at 100% volumetric efficiency.It is also possible to make more than 100% V.E.
85% V.E. is realistic for most builders of mild street engines.
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Old 01-01-2013, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my87Z View Post
Factory 156 peanut port heads with 195cc intake runners have a max flow of 226cfm at .600 and then 227cfm at .700" and their efficiency rating is 70.8%. The 236 peanut port heads with 208cc intake runners have a max flow if 235cfm at .600 and .700", their efficacy rating is 70.6%.

To put those flow numbers into perspective a pair of 906/062 vortecs with 170cc runners flow about 227cfm at .500" from the factory. These nor the BBC peanut port heads in factory form can support 500hp. A general rule of thumb is that what ever your max flow cfm is, multiply that by 2 and that will give you the absolute max hp those heads can support, and that is with an engine with pretty much 100% VE. Most decent street engine only have about 85% VE. So take the 236 208cc peanut port heads which flow 235cfm at .600, under 100% VE they could make 470hp max but considering most decent street engine on have about 85% VE that number is more realistically 415-425hp.
John lingerfeller's dyno or your math..
I know where I'd put my money..

may he r.i.p.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 01-01-2013, 08:54 AM
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I'd love to see you post his dyno info, and I love to see it done on non professionally ported peanut port heads. You can find all kinds of inflated numbers when port work has been done. My numbers came straight from Stain Weiss's cylinder flow page. The numbers are as cast. People like Lingenfelter, Vizard, Case... Have so much knowledge, experience and the proper tools and machinery to do some outstanding things like this. And much of their knowledge has come from the trial and error of porting thousands of heads. Most people do not have the know how nor the tools in their garage to do anything at the scale some of these people where capable of doing. These people had flow benches on site where they could check at the drop of a hat if what they were doing was going to benifit power or hinder it. Your average gearhead can't even begin to compete with what these guys had the resources to do and that they were capable of.

Like I said, the 156 and 236 peanut port numbers I posted where taken as cast, flow tested on a SF600 in 28" of water. It doesn't mention what bore plate was being used, I would assume 4.250" but I'm not sure. And about my math numbers about head cfm, max HP, and VE, that came from David Vizard, you know one of the most respected engine builders in the US.

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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 01-01-2013, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinniekq2 View Post
actually the correct formula is just over 2.2 X CFM so 227 cfm could make over 500 hp at 100% volumetric efficiency.It is also possible to make more than 100% V.E.
85% V.E. is realistic for most builders of mild street engines.
Actually 227x2.2=499.4


And I'm pretty sure that we are talking about "most builders of mild street engines" here since 99.9% of gearheads don't have multi-million dollar facilities nor the vast expert knowledge it took to afford those multi-million dollar facilities. Even most of your average in home drag engine builders who are producing engines with 1.4-1.7hp/ci are still only managing 85-90%VE

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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 01-01-2013, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my87Z View Post
I'd love to see you post his dyno info, and I love to see it done on non professionally ported peanut port heads. You can find all kinds of inflated numbers when port work has been done. My numbers came straight from Stain Weiss's cylinder flow page. The numbers are as cast. People like Lingenfelter, Vizard, Case... Have so much knowledge, experience and the proper tools and machinery to do some outstanding things like this. And much of their knowledge has come from the trial and error of porting thousands of heads. Most people do not have the know how nor the tools in their garage to do anything at the scale some of these people where capable of doing. These people had flow benches on site where they could check at the drop of a hat if what they were doing was going to benifit power or hinder it. Your average gearhead can't even begin to compete with what these guys had the resources to do and that they were capable of.

Like I said, the 156 and 236 peanut port numbers I posted where taken as cast, flow tested on a SF600 in 28" of water. It doesn't mention what bore plate was being used, I would assume 4.250" but I'm not sure. And about my math numbers about head cfm, max HP, and VE, that came from David Vizard, you know one of the most respected engine builders in the US.
509 ft at the wheels on the dyno challange .. through a th400 and a full floater rear.. in a dually thats over 600ft at the crank..
a vid of the pull is on the net.. I'll have to try to find it..
I have i
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 01-01-2013, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by my87Z View Post
I'd love to see you post his dyno info, and I love to see it done on non professionally ported peanut port heads. You can find all kinds of inflated numbers when port work has been done. My numbers came straight from Stain Weiss's cylinder flow page. The numbers are as cast. People like Lingenfelter, Vizard, Case... Have so much knowledge, experience and the proper tools and machinery to do some outstanding things like this. And much of their knowledge has come from the trial and error of porting thousands of heads. Most people do not have the know how nor the tools in their garage to do anything at the scale some of these people where capable of doing. These people had flow benches on site where they could check at the drop of a hat if what they were doing was going to benifit power or hinder it. Your average gearhead can't even begin to compete with what these guys had the resources to do and that they were capable of.

Like I said, the 156 and 236 peanut port numbers I posted where taken as cast, flow tested on a SF600 in 28" of water. It doesn't mention what bore plate was being used, I would assume 4.250" but I'm not sure. And about my math numbers about head cfm, max HP, and VE, that came from David Vizard, you know one of the most respected engine builders in the US.
509 ft at the wheels on the dyno challange .. through a th400 and a full floater rear.. in a dually thats over 600ft at the crank..
a vid of the pull is on the net.. I'll have to try to find it..
I have it on a zip drive.. but that computer is win 95 and needs work..
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 01-01-2013, 09:48 AM
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just over. 499.??? is close enough to 500 at 100% I also stated that over 100% is possible.
go through my posts and I am usually conservative with results

I have dyno results for my engine if you want to try your math


heads flow 327 cfm
solid roller 256/264x .420X 1.5&1.6--108/108 at 107.5
single 950
vic Jr
headers are 1 7/8 stepped 2 inch,,,3 inch collector.10.75:cr
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 01-01-2013, 10:01 AM
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by his math no one in super stock should run what they do..
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 01-01-2013, 10:14 AM
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I mention SS on occasion as my friend Richard Johnson used to run 11.7s with a 265 in a 56 bel air. The SS boys go a lot faster than they should,and they are very good with carbs. I used to buy used cams from Richard
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old 01-01-2013, 10:41 AM
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Wow, you guys just want to argue for the sake of arguing. Most everything I have posted has come from the work of true Experts, not my self. I have used what I have learned from them to build the engines that I have built. The math I used came straight from David Vizard, the cylinder flow data came straight from Stan Weiss. Neither you have posted where you go any of you information from, and have continued to argue simply based on opinions. I have used the math, formulated by the experts, not formulated by my self!

Here look up the 156 and 236 peanut port heads:

Stan Weiss' - Cylinder Head Flow Data at 28 Inches of Water -- DFW / FLW Flow Files for use with Engine Simulation Software


WHAT PART OF AS CAST DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND!!!! I NEVER MENTIONED ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT THEY WERE OR WERE NOT CAPABLE OF WITH MACHINE WORK. ONLY AS CAST!!!

actually the correct formula is just over 2.2 X CFM so 227 cfm could make over 500 hp at 100% volumetric efficiency.It is also possible to make more than 100% V.E.
85% V.E. is realistic for most builders of mild street engines.
Yesterday 11:16 PM


I understood what you were trying to say but you all have been so intent on attacking me, I found a minor error in your statment and threw it back in your face. You guys are so intent on trying to attack me that you can't see the forest for the trees. You guys keep talking about what a heads is capable of with machine work done to it and I am only talking about what those are are capable of without machine work done to them, in complete factory form.

Super stock guys work wonders with their heads, pretty much none of them are using their heads as they were cast. This is simply the point that I have been trying to make over the last umptine posts, but you guys just keep reading it the way you want and continue to argue. Go back and reread what I have posted, never to I mention what they heads are capable of with some work being done the them, and I know that I have said "as cast" multiple times in my previous post.

"I have dyno results for my engine if you want to try your math


heads flow 327 cfm
solid roller 256/264x .420X 1.5&1.6--108/108 at 107.5
single 950
vic Jr
headers are 1 7/8 stepped 2 inch,,,3 inch collector.10.75:cr
"


You never put a CID on here but I would assume that its a small block and in the area of 383-406 but I could be wrong. This set up is very similar to what I have. I have a little more compression, nearly identical cam (255/261 .620/.620", 1.6 rockers on int/exh)my head flow about 10 less CFM at .700", where I acutally had them flow tested on a 4.040" bore plate, done right in front of me, that isn't coming off the manufacutres inflated numbers where they used 4.200" bore plates. I used a modified 850 DP, with a vic jr, All in a 385cid that is capable of running off pump gas (93 octane), mine was dyno'd at 573hp @ 6400rpm and 538tq @ 4600rpm (I shift at 6800rpm). The engine was dyno'd by Maryland Performance Center in Frederick, MD. I would guess based on 383-406ci, that your engine is making roughly 550-600hp.

Last edited by my87Z; 01-01-2013 at 10:48 AM.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old 01-01-2013, 10:44 AM
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what part of real world don't you get..
I feel sorry for the o/p as he'll be talked into parts he doesn't need.. it's a dually, it's to tow, he need low end torque.. PERIOD..
bigger ports will not do any of that.. not at idle to 3500 rpm..
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:53 AM
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my engine is 434 cube/
I often use stan weis as a guide for getting flow numbers on castings.
one of the local guys here I associate with is Harvey Resnick,who was good friends with John Lingenfelter, I never met John.
I get my engine parts from Jeff Lukovich.My best friend John Graham deals with Scott Shaffiroff. I use Richard Johnson for machine work.I ve used John Haida,Dave Hall,Buck Kinney.
So does name dropping help?
no, personally Ive bracket raced at mission/S I R/Bremerton. Ive road raced at westwood,Ive ralleye raced from BBY to harrison hot springs

Im not looking to argue with you again.sometimes you make very good posts and I dont even follow up because you were correct and concise.
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