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Old 05-22-2011, 01:24 PM
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Big ci sbc stroker head limitation

Ok I'm gonna make this short, I have a 383 project that I have put on hold as I had a 400 practically fall into my lap and have decided to start building it instead. I have been looking around at the stroker kits available for it as well and the 434 stroker was the one that had caught my eye. I started doing a little searching around for some answers to this question but haven't really found an answer. With the addition of the longer stroke bringing it to the 434 ci mark and well into big block ci territory, is there a sbc head that will seficiently supply this big motor with enough fuel/air? When looking threw the variouse sbc heads one of the larger I found was AFR with a 227cc Runner and when you compare that to the big block heads coming in at around the 290-357cc, the sbc heads just don't look like they would be able to supply all those ci fast enough.......
I don't wanna dump allot of money into something that will take even more time and money to have someone customize heads for this, so Im thinking that it might be wiser to just build a 406 instead, any thoughts?
Thanks in advance

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Old 05-22-2011, 01:36 PM
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Well you made this pretty easy first off how you plan on using this thing?
and you can make a 406 ran as good as any 434 if built right with well thought out components,
And i take it this will be a street car if that being the case you want usable power with a 434 with 227cc heads you will not like on the street with out a real loose converter and alot i mean alot of gear

406"s im a lil partial to just finished mine and personally wouldnt even waste my money on a set of AFR's.
I have done a ton of research on cylnder headsin this market and engine size range and profiler 210's are a monstar and make great usable power where you need them, plus flow like crazy this set i bought flow 300 cfm at 600" and would be a great addition to any 406 ecs on a budget had these built ported matched to cam card with parts of my choice from chad speiers for less than a over the counter afr plus i got a flow chart with them.

Keep us posted but a 406 would be the ticket ecs if your looking at saving a lil coin and going fast.
heres a quick vid of mine just fired up the build awhile back
http://s229.photobucket.com/albums/e...rent=002-2.mp4

406 11..5.1 210 profilers 2.08-1.60's
solid roller lunati voodoo
keep us posted
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Old 05-22-2011, 05:47 PM
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I was actually just using the AFR's as a reference and yes the car is just a street car for now maybe take it to the track one day hopefully. I do plan on adding nitrous as well but not till later down the road. The motor will be bolted to a 5 speed at first till I have time to recoup some of the funds and get a T56.
I find it ironic that you talk about the profiler heads as I have been planning on getting a set myself, I had contacted a Michael Green from their company about other models of their heads, he told me about a set that wasn't on the website that are of the 72cc flavor. I haven't ordered them yet as I haven't decided my combo yet. I have the 400 (509) block with 2 bolt mains that will be getting treated to a set of ARP studs, I have heard of people grinding the tops of the main caps flat so you can place a thick steel plate across it between the bolts to help strengthen it, any one here try this?
I haven't picked out which cam will be running but will be a solid roller and I already have a set of comp cams 1.6 pro mag roller rockers from the 383 along with a set of scat forged 5.7 connecting rods.
Like said, I would like to build a stroker but don't wanna wast time or money if heads cannot feed the 434 ci, I did run across another stroker crank that was something like 3.80...... I think and still used the 6" connecting rods which made it something around a 418~420 ci.
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Old 05-22-2011, 10:37 PM
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Heres a lil run down on my 406 build like i mentioned the pro-filers are bad *** i bought straight from Chad Speiers would recommend giving him a call.
And no need to get fancy with cutting bolts etc. a good set of arp studs will be all you need!

406
11.5.1 Mahles
210 Pro-Filers by Chad Speiers 2.08-1.60's
Internally balanced Scat crank and 6" rods
243-249@.050 585"solid roller lunati VooDoo
Huricane intake also messaged by chad open up
with HVH 1" spacer
750 mighty Demon
Melling select pump
cloyes billet double roller
MSD billet dist. with 6AL and ss coil


By profleetline at 2011-04-16

Last edited by PRO 48 fleetline; 05-22-2011 at 10:43 PM.
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Old 05-22-2011, 11:23 PM
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Check out one of my threads and see what im using for my build im having a new engine sbc built for 600+hp and the parts arent breaking the bank, just remember to order things like heads from your machine shop bc they are dealers Nd can get you way cheaper prices this i can promise
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Old 05-23-2011, 10:20 AM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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You can't compare runner volumes from different engines. You can compare csa, valve size, flow, etc. If you want the most power you can get from 434ci a big block will win hands down. The only disadvantage of going big block is the space and weight.
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Old 05-23-2011, 10:40 AM
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Actually Dart makes a couple of SBC heads with larger port volumes. The problem comes in that most of them require a special valve train. The Little Chief 11 degree head can be had with a 330cc intake port. Granted that's a bit extreme but they do make a 23 degree head that can be ported into the 240cc range.
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Old 05-23-2011, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRIdLOCK
Ok I'm gonna make this short, I have a 383 project that I have put on hold as I had a 400 practically fall into my lap and have decided to start building it instead. I have been looking around at the stroker kits available for it as well and the 434 stroker was the one that had caught my eye. I started doing a little searching around for some answers to this question but haven't really found an answer. With the addition of the longer stroke bringing it to the 434 ci mark and well into big block ci territory, is there a sbc head that will seficiently supply this big motor with enough fuel/air? When looking threw the variouse sbc heads one of the larger I found was AFR with a 227cc Runner and when you compare that to the big block heads coming in at around the 290-357cc, the sbc heads just don't look like they would be able to supply all those ci fast enough.......
I don't wanna dump allot of money into something that will take even more time and money to have someone customize heads for this, so Im thinking that it might be wiser to just build a 406 instead, any thoughts?
Thanks in advance
One thing you're going to find is that a big inch SBC will be somewhat RPM limited due to the bottom end squirming around at high RPM unless you use an aftermarket block, and even then the rotator and machining, etc. will need to be top-shelf. None of this comes cheaply.

I'd keep the stroke stock on your 400 and build it that way. If you want bigger, build a BBC from the beginning- it will be a lot less expensive and will make better power than a big SBC in all but the most extreme cases.
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Old 05-23-2011, 11:22 AM
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Dont build a 434 with a stock block.

I have built a few 4.125 X 3.5 oval racing engines with old 18 degree NASCAR top ends. I found the parts on ebay and paid less than $3k for complete heads, rockers, and intake.
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Old 05-23-2011, 02:56 PM
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Like i mentioned 406 will be alll you need heres my flow chart on my 210 pro-filers! key is to not get an oversized head asmuch as an unuder sized one to big you will be giving up velocity and torque down low if you can get a 210 to flow around 300cfm you will have all you need for a lil street motor!


By profleetline at 2010-11-25

By profleetline at 2010-11-19
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Old 05-23-2011, 11:58 PM
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will it make 586 to 600hp 2x293=586?
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Old 05-24-2011, 12:10 AM
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im using dart pro 1 heads fully cnc'd making 600+ easily
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Old 05-24-2011, 01:54 AM
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thats good proaction 14 degree stuff on 415 just makes 720
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Old 05-24-2011, 05:38 PM
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OK, I got the stroker Idea out of my head for the 400 (434) and will just focus on a 406 build. I guess one cant help to think since I will probably be buying all new parts that when stock configuration cost about the same as modified i.e. 3.75" forged crank=$635.00 and 4.00" forged crank=$635.00...... you start leaning towards bigger but then you gotta figure in all the extra machining and that price goes up dramatically. While I was searching for my answer here I did run across something that one ericnova72 said and it shed some light on my decision making, it was HERE and this is what he was commenting on about a 420 stroker
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnova72
It is more commonly referred to as a 421(420.33 rounded up), common for a lot of Open Modified circle track racers. The reason you may not have heard much about them is that in the past it cost more to build than the horsepower it returned for that added cost, compared to a 406. It only really made a difference to mid range torque, needed off the corner in circle track. Didn't make much sense for a street or strip engine, cost didn't equal output.

It also requires more clearancing of the block, a small base circle cam for clearance and clearance grinding on most of the common performance rods, and a stroker clearance oil pan.

Stroker cranks and pistons are now much more affordable, so more of these are coming out to play. 23 Heads big enough to feed these big SBC's are also more affordable and available today, didn't used to be that way, you needed 18 heads ($$$) to make these big engines shine in the past.

For a street, or street/strip engine, I still don't believe it returns additional power proportional to the cost of all the stroker specific parts and clearncing needed when compared to a 406, IMO.

I've tried every which way with Dyno programs and can't make the small amount of power gained(25-ish on a 600 hp engine) to equal the added cost of the parts. The added cubes seems to only be good for bragging rights on the street.

Makes more sense to use the 3.875" crank in a 350 block, especially a later roller cam block which has more clearance already, to make a 396 SBC.
Know, I already have a set of scat forged I beam rods 5.7" (sca-25700716) that was gonna be used on my 383 build but would it be ok to use thse on the 406 build or would I be best off to go with a 6" rod (sca-26000716) and get pistons to match?
oh and PRO 48 fleetline, really like the sound of the 406, next vid you do you need to be laying down some rubber lol
Thanks again for al the replies
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Old 05-24-2011, 06:18 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
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5.7" rods will be fine, even with a 406 heads will have to be pretty big to get high hp. Keep in mind a stock 400 block is only reliable to about 500hp, so you may not want to be chasing 600hp.
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