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Old 11-23-2009, 04:30 PM
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Big or Little engine in a forty ford?

Anyone ever put a 500 cadillac in a 40 ford? I have been measuring the engine bay, with the fan on front, still does not fit, I would need two inches to clear firewall to radiator. I have people with big blocks complain about heat, they say, I should have put one of those big block firewall with 5" or so.
But it will fit, I just would like to know that firewall would confine me, the gas pedal, brake pedal. I am optioning it to a turbo 400, (Cadillac) I guess 400 turbo are all the same. I am scared about the steering column, I would like to use the 40 ford switch/lock, maybe cut it at the firewall sides and use DDshafts with universal joints to avoid the big motor.
Has anyone tried the 76' 500 cadillac in a forty?
Help!

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Old 11-23-2009, 06:21 PM
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How tall are you?

Will you NEED the leg and head room? Those old fortys were made for smaller folks! Why a 500 Caddie? Not alot of speed parts for them and pretty heavy. A 351 W(look at my name!) can be poked and stroked to 427 cubes and make WAAYYY yondor more power than a Big Caddie. Probably fit better too!
The main question is....how long is your legs?!
6sally6
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Old 11-23-2009, 07:42 PM
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Thanks, 6Sally6. Just about to think anyone would touch that Caddy. How tall I am, I am 5''8"? The seat slides back and it is comfortable. After 8 years with a 305 chevy, the oil sump fell off the oil pump. It had the 58cc heads with porting. I did not notice that the sender would not work good and then it would drop off. The skirts fell off the piston, then it began to make some noise. The 305 has a cam in it, but it always jerking. It ran good and was fast.
I picked up the 500, It idles at 500 rpm, full of nickle block, I just a engine could cruise at 2500 @ 80 on the interstate. And if I wanted to burn tires, it could do it. I believe it may get 22 mpg average. Could last for 300,000 miles to do anything, it has a RV cam in it. I have not installed yet, I pulled my 305 and saginaw three speed with overdrive, I loved that overdrive, it has a 3.7 9". With the caddy, I would use a 2.73 gear. I have always loved the cadillac. I went to the speed shop yesterday, they told me that all the 350 chevy blocks are getting rare and the heads are cracking because of heat with the new fuel. The 305 rebuilt was alot more to build it as a 350 for the money.
I am going to see how far I will go with the caddy, if it gets too tight, I may change my mind. Thanks for your input.
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Old 11-23-2009, 08:23 PM
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well, the 500 Cadillac is probably the lightest big inch engine there is, and certinly enough parts available to build a nice engine from, and if you only need 2 ", that's not that much... however, if the speed shop you went to told you 350's are getting rare and heads are cracking because of the new fuel.. go to a diffrent shop.. it's hard for an engine block to be rare if it's still being produced, and as for cracking heads due to fuel?? yea, heads can crack. they will crack. it's an adverse effect of the heating and cooling of cast iron and has nothing to do with the fuel
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Old 11-26-2009, 07:31 AM
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Well, it is done. I have never, that was a heavy engine and tranny. But the front end seems to set just alittle lower. It fits between the firewall and the radiator. I am not sure how to post the pictures, they are really neat.
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Old 11-26-2009, 08:28 AM
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I just post some pictures on gallery, the steering is tight on the 500. Has about 1/2" to the 40 ford gear shift lever pivot. I may get a 39 ford column, or just remove the shift/or use one for the automatic to shift and a indicator at the top of the column for selection.
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Old 11-26-2009, 08:33 AM
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Great! Would love to see pictures if you can get posting them figured out. (Try clicking the Manage attachment button , then browse (pick the picture from your docuemnts, then hit upload) then upload the post).

Dispite the most commonly quoted 50 Pond difference between the SBC and 500 Caddy the weight difference is actually closer to 100 pounds + and the TH400 are not light weights either.

There are some interesting weight figures on the bottom of this page.

http://www.cadillacpower.com/forum/v...php?f=3&t=6981

That 40 should be a riot to drive.

I'm doing a 500 in an 83 El Camino the 500 are definately a little snug where the SBC used to fit, but not so bad it becomes unfeasable.
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Old 11-26-2009, 08:48 AM
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Thanks for the info 1957Plymouthhemi. When I was 16, I had a 66 Chrysler Newport with 383, my friend over the hill had a 1970 Deville, 472. We would drag each other to see what would happen. My newport would go 0-60 @ 8 seconds.
The Cadillac, @ 5000 or more, it could pull over the newport.

I was suprised that it would fit without cutting anything, the motor mounts are home made, the 500 was going into a 49 cadillac, it has a eldebrock intake it is light, it has a mild RV cam, I watched it on the dyno, idles 500 rpm smoothly. The hp was 375 peak, torque 475 lbs. There are pictures on my hotrodder forum with the 500, and the earlier 305 pictures. I will try to put some more pictures.
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Old 11-26-2009, 05:38 PM
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1957Plymouthhemi,
Your 68 472 has alot of my 500, I really liked all that information, I just had a chance to look at your links, that is great. How in the world did you get it into that El camino. I wish to have some of those 500cad.com aluminum heads, that would make light as the 305.
I have people praise of the chevy motors, I had a friend said he worked on a 472, he said it was a dog, then he told me that it had 3 burned valves. I like the Cadillac.
thanks 1957Plymouthhemi
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Old 11-26-2009, 07:05 PM
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I can't reallty take much credit for the info, I just posted the links.

I am doing a build thread on my 83 El Caminio over here:

http://caddy500.com/index.php?topic=986.0

I do list a bit of information on different pully setups, modifying the stock A6 Caddy AC bracket to a Sanden compressor and a pan mod if you're using a stock Eldo pan (it allows the oil to drain to the rear sump so you only have to pull that pull that plug to drain all the oil at oil change time).
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Old 12-05-2009, 07:22 PM
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It fits the 40.

I got the transmission to the engine, slid it into the chassis X-member, I have the long cadillac turbo 400, it is a 1957 or 76. I bought a trans mount, it does not fit. I think they changed to another type, it has two holes threaded, 1.5 inches to holes. I don't have seen how the mount to trans to member to frame. The fix would be easy to drill or slot the member, but how could the 1.5 inch would have to have a plate on top to screws to trans holes. Or, if my long 400 does not work. I can a short case T
H 400, is there any different? The mount I have now would work fine. I have a 68 Calis with a 25K miles.

I loved the way you put your Sanden compressor on the old mount for the rotary. My 500 has a aluminum intake, it is taller. I think I ca find a plate or spacer to make it clear the intake.
Alterator is close to the inner fender, if so, modify to accomodate a pocket.

I had the starter rebuilt, I charged the battery over night. This morning I attached the cable. I hit my 40 button, it turned better, but still slow. Am I to have to buy one of those geared mini job for 150. I looked on the valve covers with the compression per cyclinder. They all average 168.

Driver manifold is close to the 40 steering box, it could get hot.
And geeze, I have some pictures, do I just attach, could it be big, or should I reduce the size? I will just try. Pictures too big, I thought manage images would resize them.
footstomper
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Old 12-23-2009, 08:07 AM
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Forty ford coupe cranked yesterday!

I finished the front motor mounts utilizing the flathead biscuit mount, I had to change the hole slightly to be balance on each side. I pulled the transmission pan and replaced the filter kit, added a cooler in front of the radiator and fill it up with about 14 quarts. I put it in park. Then I extended the distributor wire from the SB chevy to the Cadillac in front of the engine. I then got a fuel line from the old 500 in the corner. It was sludge in the "U" under the fuel pump. I got a stiff wire and some carb cleaner, I held the pliers and used it as a ice pick that curves, (Don't try that, I don't want to go there), I am sore. I still was able to get all that varnish out. I then added the 850 Rochester carb, put the @@%%####&*** fuel line and linked hoses and filter. I poured alittle gas, closed the choke. I flipped the 40 switch, hit the button on the dash, and it turned 3 times and it roared to life, it idled smoothly. I only ran it no more than 5 minutes and I shut it down. I don't have the electric fan installed. I flogged it alittle, looks like it will be very power.
A friend gave me a two piece driveshaft with yoke. It is rusty, but the u-joints move. Is there a way to clean the yoke? Sandblast, and polish? I may lift the rear tires off the stand, and cut the driveshaft (46") and tack it just to see if the transmission works correctly. Then take driveshaft to a professional. I put some pictures on the browse and uploaded them, hope they worked.
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Old 12-23-2009, 04:33 PM
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"....I flipped the 40 switch, hit the button on the dash, and it turned 3 times and it roared to life, ....."

Great isn't it.


Sounds like you're well on your way. As far as cleaning the yolk, I ran into the same problem I really had to dig around my stash to find one and there was exterior rust and in the splines too.

The outside was easy, a wire brush followed by 400 wet/dry paper. The inside was bad and I couldn't get it more than an inch in. I used an old trick I read about years ago. I set the yolk upright and filled it with plain old vinegar overnight (you usually donít want or need to let it sit much longer than that). I poured out the vinegar sprayed it down with carb cleaner and hit it with some WD40.

The vinegar ate all the rust and it looks like new inside.
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Old 12-23-2009, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Footstomper
I am going to see how far I will go with the caddy, if it gets too tight, I may change my mind.
Glad for you that you worked it out. There are a bunch of Caddy speed parts these days- just not from as many different sources as the 'other guys', is all.

With your '40, the oil pan wasn't an issue. But when doing other swaps that need rear sump pans, a Caddy fwd Eldo pan works. It actually has two sumps, but clears X-members like on second gen F-bodies.

I found this out when I put a 472 into a second generation Camaro. It had 3.08 gears and the orig. TH400. I was lucky enough to score a d-shaft that didn't need shortened to use- just one of those hybrid U-joints.

My car was a factory AC delete and had a manual steering box swapped from an older Camaro in it (I hated the S-L-O-W ratio- looked like I was putting out a fire by hand when maneuvering into a parking spot, etc.!) so I had zero probs. w/clearance.

Will your '40 be driven much? I hope so- it looks like too much fun to leave in the garage!
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Old 12-23-2009, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1957plymouthhemi
"....I flipped the 40 switch, hit the button on the dash, and it turned 3 times and it roared to life, ....."

Great isn't it.


Sounds like you're well on your way. As far as cleaning the yolk, I ran into the same problem I really had to dig around my stash to find one and there was exterior rust and in the splines too. The outside was easy, a wire brush followed by 400 wet/dry paper. For the inside was bad and I couldn't get it more than an inch in. I used an old trick I read about years ago. I set the yolk upright and filled it with plain old vinegar overnight (you usually donít want or need to let it sit much longer than that). I poured out the vinegar sprayed it down with carb cleaner and hit it with some WD40.

The vinegar ate all the rust and it looks like new inside.
Hey, I forgot the vinegar trick, a guy pours vinegar into a flathead water jackets, you are a genius. I cranked the engine, in park. I slide the yoke in the tailshaft, I was upset because the tail shaft wobbled pretty bad. It was pouring transmission fluid. I put it in the gears and they responded. I sandblasted the yoke, not knowing that the seal would tear up. A buddy told me to go to the auto parts close home. They have a sleeve to slide on the outside of the yoke. I don't know if they have sleeves to filler the bushing without having to take the trans overhauled? Thanks 1957plymouthhemi.
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