Black Work Van with old removed decal fade showing up- Way to eliminate this? - Page 4 - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 02-10-2012, 06:05 PM
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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 777funk
So far we only have only one actual experience with this issue discussed (Shine's). I am interested in other experience, specifically pertaining to modern finishes.

Someone who works with fleet vehicles would be the person to talk to (i.e. someone who converts retired cop cars to taxis etc).
LOL, who works on fleet vehicles is going to tell you peel the stripes or letters off and polish it. If the paint has changed in color under the stripes and letters sand it with 600 and put a few coats of color over it, done deal.

But if you want for CERTAIN for that stuff to be gone you do as Shine said.

Brian

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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 02-10-2012, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
LOL, who works on fleet vehicles is going to tell you peel the stripes or letters off and polish it. If the paint has changed in color under the stripes and letters sand it with 600 and put a few coats of color over it, done deal.

But if you want for CERTAIN for that stuff to be gone you do as Shine said.

Brian
boy Brian's nailed that one..all we did at the detail shop when we took in a used commercial truck was peel the graphics and do a cut and buff and if it was good enough to make it to the used car lot it was good enough..for the best job sand to metal and feather and do a re-paint..

Nuff said..

Sam
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2012, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shine
your just not going to listen . i've explained it now on 2 web sites. lacquer has nothing to do with it .

for anyone else following this. the tape was removed . the edge of the 2 tone did not ghost back but rather the stripe did. even though it was sanded down to factory primer. the metal took on the shape of the stripe due to exposure.

just as a metal patch will ghost in the sun sometimes. metal expands and contracts in the heat and uv .
Thats right,its not from the stripe being on lacqure paint because it also happens with ALL paints....I also have a theory.....as everyone knows water and weather are very abrasive...for example rocks and boulders are very hard but when they're in a stream they are smooth and rounded from the water wearing them down,old brick buildings are another example of how weather can wear down a hard surface...so when you put a piece of tape on a painted surface and then sand that surface then pull the tape off and sand it again then repaint it ....WALLAH,theres your ghost ,all around the tape was taken down just a little but the paint under the tape is untouched by the abrasives and is the same height as the day it was done.....Now since your sanding both levels at the same time they will remain different levels because even though they are both being sanded ,the same amount of material is being taken off at the same time....your basically doing the same thing the weather did but faster....so it either needs to be removed down to the metal (the best way) or sanded and filled (the second best but fastest way) ....
But after all is said and done you said it was a work van and I cant see doing it any other way being practical ,after all ,sanding the old paint and repainting isnt the best way to paint a car.,anybody that knows will tell you the best way to paint a car always starts with stripping the paint and starting fresh ...Its not very practical for everyday cars but it IS the BEST way
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2012, 08:52 AM
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I don't believe there is any different "level" to speak of. If there is we are talking a few thousands of an inch, something that would sand out in a few quick passes of 600. No, I think we are talking about the UV break down of the film exposed as opposed to the area protected under a stripe.

When it is being sanded, it could cut easier because of the damaged integrity so it gets cut faster than the area where the stripe was. Then on top of that, the paint/primer that was exposed to the UV rays would also be more porous and absorb more solvents from the top coat put over it. So after painting it could "suck up" that solvents causing highs and lows in surface height as well as gloss, making those areas that where protected by stripes or letters stick out big time.

Without a doubt, removing all undercoat down to bare metal where the letters were would guaranty it wouldn't be back. But sanding it good and applying some primer over it MAY be good enough.

Unless there was VERY little expectations of the owner, it would be cut down to metal if it were me. Especially being black, ANYTHING is going to show up. Maybe not the day it is painted ("Oh heck yeah, this looks perfect, those guys were nuts" as it rolls out of the booth) but a few months later, WHAM the guy is walking across the parking lot after picking up his morning donuts and can read what the sign said clear as day!

Brian

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  #50 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2012, 08:58 AM
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I can also see a guy trying to remove the stripes and letters, only to find out that they are all UV damaged too. He tries to peel them off and they don't come, breaking up with every little peel that comes up. He tries scraping them with a razor, and just keeps putting nicks in the paint. He tries heating it, rubbing it with an enamel reducer or lacquer thinner or what ever, nothing. So then he sands them off, NOW is a point without a doubt no thinking about it a second the paint, primer and everything to shiny bare metal has to come off. Because if he is sanding the tape stripes off without a friggin doubt he is sanding the surrounding area a heck of a lot more than where the stripe is. He could sand all the paint off and THINK he evened it out but there is no way, the surrounding area got sanded a LOT more before that stripe was sanded off and you would most certainly have those stripes and letters STILL there, in a 3D effect, which is NOT what you are after.


Brian
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2012, 09:24 AM
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for brian and others who are smart enough to read and listen.
what we found over the years is the metal expands and contracts differently when covered by the vinyl. which creates a memory line in the metal . one trans am in particular was media blasted with plastic. no bird wanted . the car was etch primed and painted. after sanding and buffing the car was shipped. it came back a week later with a po'd owner with a bird on the hood. bring the car into the shop. next morning the bird was gone ???? put into the sun and a couple hours later there was the bird. i am no metal specialist so i have no idea why other than the above suggestion.

now i did not just pull this out of my ***. i have experienced it many times over the years. as have many others . 5 on another web site who also tried to give advice. i do not need an education on lacquer paint as i have sprayed as much maybe more than most on this board.

this has become common practice here. ask for advice then keep harping on it until you hear what you want. threads like this and the rustoleum threads is exactly what has run off the majority of the professional painters on this site.

hope it makes sense to you brian. it's all i got .
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Old 02-11-2012, 09:50 AM
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No, that does make sense (it's a stretch for my brain) you experienced it, that is all there is too it. Especially on a black hood, holy cow there is a LOT of heat there. It's like the guy who worries about the heat of paint on the valve covers or firewall but has never thought about how hot that paint gets on the ROOF of his car in the parking lot on a hot July day. The hood on that black T/A gets REALY hot from the suns rays and I could see to some degree how that metal can be effected. Day after day after day the heat it can be exposed to, and the difference of where the stripe is to where it isn't. Hell, it could be that where the stripe is gets HOTTER, that stripe material absorbs more heat maybe? Or it's the other way around and it is shielding the hood from heat at that area.

Like I say, it's stretching my brain to see it, but yeah I can see it.

There are somethings that you just have to see to really hit you. When I think of black hoods, one pops into my head. I have no idea what kind of car, I don't remember. But I painted a hood black, in lacquer. It was very hot out and of course it was "dry" in minutes (remember those days?) and I put it out side behind the shop. Now mind you, this was DRY to the touch.
I was walking past this car as it was out in the sun and I noticed the hood was covered with bugs, dead and dying bugs. I don't remember what kind of bugs, but small ones, maybe gnats. Anyway, as I am standing there looking at it, a bug came flying over the hood and he this this bzzz bzzz bzzz like a little plane with the engine dying! Bzzz bzzzz bzzzz bzzz and then he spiraled down hitting the hood like a friggin plane crashing! I watched as a few more did the same thing! The solvents were flashing off this hood even though it was "dry" and those poor buggers were flying over the hood and getting over taken by the solvents dropping them out of the sky like a friggin German bomber being shot from the sky with anti air craft guns!

Just another worthless story from MARTINSR, thank you very much.

Brian
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2012, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR

Just another worthless story from MARTINSR, thank you very much.

Brian
Ha ha I thought you were going to say the bugs ended up being bubble blisters from the sun. I used to spray lacquer outside when I first started doing this and I learned real quick not to spray anything near as dark as black between 10-3. Those were ouch moments.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old 02-11-2012, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 777funk
Ha ha I thought you were going to say the bugs ended up being bubble blisters from the sun. I used to spray lacquer outside when I first started doing this and I learned real quick not to spray anything near as dark as black between 10-3. Those were ouch moments.
I remember repairing a chip, priming it, painting it, clearing it, blending it and polishing it in something crazy like 15 minutes. Lacquer in the sun, oh yeah you could move along pretty well.

Brian
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Old 02-12-2012, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shine

hope it makes sense to you brian. it's all i got .
So how did you end up fixing the ghost bird problem ????? new hood ?????
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old 02-12-2012, 12:32 AM
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Old 02-12-2012, 04:47 AM
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