Block hugger headers vs Long tube headers - Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board
Hotrodders.com -- Hot Rod Forum



Register FAQ Search Today's Posts Unanswered Posts Auto Escrow Insurance Auto Loans
Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board > Tech Help> Engine
User Name
Password
lost password?   |   register now

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-29-2008, 09:37 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 389
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Block hugger headers vs Long tube headers

Hey guys looking for some input here. What is the advantages/disadvantages between block hugger headers and long tube headers?? I know hugger headers are very common (espeically on SBC's) but I am curious as to any HP or torque altering differences between the two.

Thanks,
Keith
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2008, 12:11 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Redondo beach ,CA
Age: 33
Posts: 335
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
they say that full length make more torque than block hugger I think having a set that fits is more important
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2008, 07:50 AM
SS66chevelle's Avatar
HR VIOLATION
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Rockford IL
Posts: 159
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
They just did a dyno test on a 350 SBC on "horsepower tv" with block hugger vs full length tubes. I believe the difference was +2 hp with the long tube if I remember correctly. Here is the link to the episode

http://www.powerblocktv.com/sites/ho...06&ep_sea=0801
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2008, 03:32 PM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Age: 50
Posts: 4,021
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 23 Times in 23 Posts
it depends on the engine setup.

On a high hp 350 sbc (400+) you will lose 30 hp with block huggers and 60hp with stock manifolds when compared to full length headers.

On a stock engine, the losses will be 10 hp with block huggers and 20hp with stock manifolds when compared to full length headers.

The huggers are about 1/2 way between full length headers and stock manifolds.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2008, 06:20 PM
curtis73's Avatar
Hates: Liver. Loves: Diesel
 
Last wiki edit: How to find cheap parts
Last journal entry: 1999-2001: Getting it on the road
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Age: 40
Posts: 5,128
Wiki Edits: 16

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
Its no different than intake runners. Large, short primaries support high end HP and smaller, long primaries support low end torque.

having said that, the long tube headers are almost always superior in both HP and Torque. Most block huggers are small primaries because of space concerns. BUT, in most situtations, the worst block huggers are better than the best manifolds.

Fullest benefits will be realized when using a properly sized, full-length header.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2008, 07:02 PM
How fast is fast enough?
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Age: 28
Posts: 8,228
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 12
Thanked 219 Times in 204 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 454C10
it depends on the engine setup.

On a high hp 350 sbc (400+) you will lose 30 hp with block huggers and 60hp with stock manifolds when compared to full length headers.

On a stock engine, the losses will be 10 hp with block huggers and 20hp with stock manifolds when compared to full length headers.

The huggers are about 1/2 way between full length headers and stock manifolds.

WOW! those must be some magical long tube headers or super super crappy manifolds...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2008, 07:13 AM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Age: 50
Posts: 4,021
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 23 Times in 23 Posts
No magic. headers are just that much better than manifolds.

Like I said. it all depends on the cam.
Long duration cams lose a lot more than a stock cam when using manifolds.
stock cam don't lose that much power.

Check out this website: http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...ase/index.html

The website tells a story pretty much what I said. Gained 70hp with a big cammed 350 and 16 hp with a stock 350 using long tubes over manifolds.

Then I remember seeing a 7 header and 1 manifold comparison test on a hot 350 and remember (very well) the block huggers were about 1/2 way between the manifolds and long tubes. I have the original write up somewhere in my magazine collection and can't seem to find it on the web, but I'm still looking.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2008, 07:45 AM
Stroke Meister
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: MI, USA
Posts: 704
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
If you are building a race, or modified engine it makes all the difference in the world. Shorties are better than a cast iron log style or ram's horn but fall short of a proper length header for the specific application. Sure, most folks just buy what fits but this is not 'the way' in the Zen of headers Tuned headers are not just equal length or whatever. Consideration must be given to the engines design, combination of parts and desired RPM as well as usage. I don't care what it is, if it's mine it gets headers. Some get block hugger tyupe because the chassis or model is only going to get them to fit without modification. For instance, on a '94 S10 with a 404ci sbc w/angle plug heads, it NEEDS block huggers without cutting. JMO
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2008, 09:34 AM
Member
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Lakeland FL
Age: 65
Posts: 4,110
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Keith, your question is to general....

what is the car and motor combo and how do you plan to use the car???
a cruiser....,
street/strip....
strip/street....
full race???

don't forget that "everything needs to match" to get the benefits that a better exhaust "can" produce....

read 454's magazine link very very carefully,
the stock motor did gain 16hp "at" the peak rpms with headers...what's are those headers worth at the strip...2 tenths quicker...that's 2 quick eyeblinks

to get the 6 tenths quicker simulation with the strong motor they had to change the convertor and gears to shift at much higher rpms due to the cam which alot more cfm thru the motor...

maybe smarter to re-word your question as "how much real world ET difference is there between block hugger and long tubes" with more info about your ride and motor....(that's really what you want to know?)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2008, 11:12 AM
Drewnashty's Avatar
sitis nam accelero
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Mesa, AZ
Age: 29
Posts: 150
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
If you are worried about fitment, make your own, cheaper, and you can extract as much power out of it by not going with some "universal block hugger". "universal" normally means the designers had to sacrifice good engineering just so it can fit in many different applications.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2008, 11:33 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 93
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 0
Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
probably none

1. On a typical crate-motor-street-driven engine with a full exhaust system, there is very little seat-of-the-pants difference.
2. On a radical-barely-streetable-pro-built-Saturday-special, where everything is coordinated and uncapped at the strip, a big difference.

The long tube headers let more noise into the cockpit than do the block-huggers.

thnx, jack vines
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2008, 01:15 PM
Registered User
 
Last photo:
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 6,427
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 3
Thanked 327 Times in 284 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by sexypizzaman
Hey guys looking for some input here. What is the advantages/disadvantages between block hugger headers and long tube headers?? I know hugger headers are very common (espeically on SBC's) but I am curious as to any HP or torque altering differences between the two.

Thanks,
Keith
For the most part either is a great improvement over cast manifolds both in terms of weight and performance.

Long tube headers are usually better tuned to the street strip RPM range of the typical engine. But the tuning comes in specific peaks which while add an amount of power at exact RPMs based upon a prime tuned frequency and subsequent harmonics, you've got to be on those RPMs for any benefit. Most of the rest of the time long tubes are doing nothing more than short tubes to effect power.

You can modify short tube header performance which tends to be above where the typical street/strip engine is usually working, by adding length to the collector, though not as totally effective as long tube header wave tuning, you can considerably close the power gap at certain RPMs.

Get your eyes on this "The Scientific Design of Exhaust and Intake Systems" by Phillip H. Smith, he gets into wave and particle movement and theory and puts in a bunch of formulas you need to compute the correct size, at least as a starting point as the math craps out pretty early and cut and try takes over. All sorts of things get in the way from temperature variations down the tube to an unnoticed blob of weld tripping a return wave before the expansion hits the end of the pipe.

Bogie
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 05-01-2008, 01:54 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: California
Age: 67
Posts: 827
Wiki Edits: 0

Thanks: 27
Thanked 21 Times in 19 Posts
Another place ot pick up some information (albeit buried in a lot of advertising) is headers by Ed. Ed has a lot of information on his web page, and sells a package of information as well.

Pat
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Recent Engine posts with photos

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name (usually not your first and last name), your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Long or Short Tube Headers? Ray102386 General Rodding Tech 13 05-12-2011 09:16 AM
block hugger headers yragat Engine 2 12-09-2007 11:04 PM
350 long block worth crshrmn3 Engine 1 10-01-2003 11:54 AM
are 1 5/8 long tubes too small for a 414 ci small block? tony350ss Engine 8 03-17-2003 11:45 AM
header question. 1 5/8 long tube or 1 3/4 shorty??? tony350ss Engine 1 02-20-2003 01:40 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:26 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.