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Old 06-29-2006, 10:37 AM
TMF TMF is offline
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Blower mounting plate help please!

I'm custom building my own 6-71 blower mounting plate and need to know where to get the plate, what type of aluminum (grade) and thickness.

I've tried to round up what I can so I have some idea. Here's what I got so far:

o Plate should be at least .625
o Aluminum recommended 6061 because it taps better than cast [?]

I've been working with a wholesale place and the gentleman there said that the 6061 plate specified above was flat to about .025 where the cast stuff could be got to .005.

Just how thick is the 6-71 base gasket?

There, my knowledge in a nutshell. LOL

Maybe someone here has some Aluminum plate ready to go and know what I need. The pattern is 13" x 18" and I would need two pieces. Any help with specifications if the above is wrong or locating what I need is why I'm posting.

Thanks in advance!

John

PS: Mockup pictures:


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Last edited by TMF; 06-29-2006 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 06-29-2006, 10:45 AM
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Several years ago I made a blower adapter plate out of 1" 6061 plate and it worked fine with the "as is" factory finish. I made my own gasket out of .032 gasket paper. I checked clearances after I torqued the blower down to make sure the case didn't get weird.
Hope this helps, mikey
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Old 06-29-2006, 11:17 AM
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That looks awesome!!! Have you checked out Arrowhead's Journal It looks a lot like what you are trying to do. Is that a 4.6 Ford engine that you are working on?
Are you staying with fuel injection or going with carbs?

Steve
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Old 06-29-2006, 12:27 PM
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The fact that you dont know what type of aluminum to use tells me this may not be the best of idea's. Unless you have machine equipment and a 300amp tig machine I wouldnt do it. Besides this if the blower is not perfectly perpendicular in alignment to the motor pulley, your going to have some serious belt wear issues.
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Old 06-29-2006, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brainsboy
The fact that you dont know what type of aluminum to use tells me this may not be the best of idea's. Unless you have machine equipment and a 300amp tig machine I wouldnt do it. Besides this if the blower is not perfectly perpendicular in alignment to the motor pulley, your going to have some serious belt wear issues.
To be honest, I cannot see where you answered any of my questions. If you're one of those "the glass is half empty" types then I don't need your help. I need people who see the glass as half full.

I'm not going to TIG anything. I know how to run a T-Square and build motors. I've just never had to fab an adapter plate yet.

Cheers

John
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Old 06-29-2006, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1931 steve
That looks awesome!!! Have you checked out Arrowhead's Journal It looks a lot like what you are trying to do. Is that a 4.6 Ford engine that you are working on?
Are you staying with fuel injection or going with carbs?

Steve
Thanks Steve!

Yes, I've been following his build and he was on the list of people to ask how they did it. Good eye, it is indeed a 4.6 Cobra motor in my Marauder with all forged internals at 9:1. The picture above shows a pair of 1000 cfm throttle bodies with the MAF's hidden inside the Cobra air cleaner. Custom fuel rails with 60lb injectors in the stock location and everything controlled by the PCM.

Cheers

john
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Old 06-29-2006, 05:47 PM
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Way cool! Glad to see someone else getting creative.

I'm not an aluminum expert, but I made an adapter out of 1/2" unknown aluminum plate. I used a 96-98 cobra lower intake and removed the intake runners. That way I had a flat top box to bolt the plate on. I used allenhead bolts countersunk in the plate to bolt to the lower intake and drilled and tapped the plate for the blower studs.

It sounds like your setting it up for some serious horsepower. I'm guessing way over 500 HP range with 60# injectors? Mine is not forged so I had to take some precautions to not over boost as the 6-71 is way over size for a 4.6L. Even with the modifications I made, it spins up over 10#'s rather quickly. But, my car only weighs about 1,600 #'s so I don't need much to have fun

Last edited by Arrowhead; 06-29-2006 at 06:00 PM.
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Old 06-29-2006, 07:25 PM
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Arrowhead, that was what I wanted to hear!

I'm going to order the 6061 plate I found online that the guy was helping me with.

BTW, on your 4.6, how have you got the over/under drive configured? What compression ratio is your motor? I also want to give you props for figuring out that custom tuning solution!

Now, where's the smokey burnout video?!? LOL!

Cheers!

john
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Old 06-29-2006, 07:40 PM
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i have yet to see any 6061 that was more than .0015" out of flat.
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Old 06-30-2006, 07:45 AM
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I built mine knowing it was going to be mild street motor (the stock 280 hp motor in a 1600# car is kind of like a 600HP in a 3500# car anyway)The 4.6 is stock out of a Lincoln Mark VIII. The compression 9.8:1. The blower is under driven by about 20%. The two outer butterflies are closed off and the center is the only active throttle blade. I did that to limit boost and make it streetable, otherwise I'd have a really touchey throttle pedal and there was enough leakage around the blades that the idle wouldn't go down below 1500 rpm. After a few test runs, I was hitting over 10#'s boost at like 85 % throttle and 3500 RPM so I put a block off plate under the bugcatcher over the front half of the blower opening. That helped a bit, but it will still spool up over 10#'s if the RPMs get up over 4000 at WOT. I'm not sure how high the boost can go with stock cast internals, so I've tried to take as many precautions as possible. I do have a good running spare motor just incase.

I looked at your website and found some of your postings on the Marauder forums. You've got a serious setup there and it looks like your a man on a mission to create some sick horsepower.

What kind of boost are you shooting for? Is your 4.6 still 4.6L? or are you running a higher displacement?

Have you checked the boost charts to figure your pulley ratios?

These are pretty helpful:
http://www.blowerdriveservice.com/techcharts.php

The only other caution I would have is the air temperature out of the blower. I've clocked it while datalogging the megasquirt and the air temps rise quickly under boost. The water temp and air temp rise to 215 degrees and stay there. I think it's hitting an upper limit of megasquirt though and I need to work on that. Now I'm not sure if that is a function of the blower efficeincy or the simply the act of compressing the air. I keep telling myself that the air is being cooled by the fuel charge being sprayed by the injectors and thats the only way it survives. I read where you dicussed that with the blower people and they had no problem with you running it dry.

Keep us posted on your progress. I would like to do more with the 4.6 in the future and take to the next level of perfomance. Like I said, I have a spare
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Old 07-01-2006, 04:43 PM
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This type of exchange is worthy of a new thread. Yes, I'm shooting for something never done before to a Marauder and still put some mad power to the ground. My last motor with 10.1:1 and stock internals lasted about 24000 miles with an ATI ProCharger running 13psi of boost.

And I beat that engine like a rented mule! Most fun I've had in a long, long time! But, it gets expensive when they blow up so I'm ready for this "upgrade".

I did have an air-to-air intercooler on that ProCharger and that may have helped keep it together as long as it did. I do know that with the 6-71's that the carbs or injectors up top do help cool it down while compressing the air. Running them dry like we are does cause them to heat up quite a bit more. I'm not sure the injectors will really cool it down as much as we think it will either. The one thing we DO have going for us is that we're using computers to manage the timing and fuel. When you have to deal with heat, it is a lot easier to have the computer pull timing based on the temps from an IAT in the manifold.

For serious racing, I'm planning on putting one of those fancy Nitrous Plates with all the cool fuel and nitrous tubes under the throttle bodies. Something around a 150 wet shot on top during WOT to cool the air charge down and pump up the HP. Again, the IAT will detect the cooler air and allow more timing. But the most important thing is having a professional dial all this in on a Dyno and keep the AFR at 11.0 across the entire RPM range during WOT.

I have my plate ordered and tghe damper will be back from Innovators West next week so I'll be trying to get this all running in the next couple weeks.

I did check the boost charts and am going to go for 15% underdriven to start. I've built this all forged motor with the 9:1 compression so I should be a lot better off than the last motor! I left it the stock 4.6 as well.

I'll take a bunch more pictures as I get the plates cut and begin the final assembly. I get goosebumps just thinking about starting!

Cheers

John
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Old 07-01-2006, 08:17 PM
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John,

EXCELLENT idea using the nitrous plates. If I want to upgrade in the future, that would be the ticket for WOT operation and I'm pretty sure it's a simple addon to the Megasquirt. The 15% underdriven sounds perfect, the pulley I saw you post on the Maruader forum scared the crap out of me.

I know there are intercoolers available for the GMC blowers too. Not saying you need it, but it would be a good safety blanket.

Can't wait to see it completed, it will be original for sure. The best part is I bet you'll get decent gas milage too
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Old 08-02-2006, 02:44 PM
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A friend of mine, years ago made a blower adapter for his 351 Windsor. He milled a single plane intake so that it was parallel to the end rails on his block. He then took 2 pieced of 1/2 aluminum plate (all he had around) and drilled them with a Holley bolt pattern and countersunk the screws on the top plate. He also milled out the carb opening on the plates. Then drilled the plate for the blower mounting bolts. Bolted the plate to the intake with countersunk Allen bolts, and then bolted the blower on. He has been running this setup on his C-cab for about 20 years without any trouble. I think he used a bit of silicon between the 2 layers of the plate, and then just regular carb gasket between the plate and the manifold. Always seemed to me the hot setup would be to find an old 2x4 manifold to start with, more volume into the intake. This is how Deyers started before they started casting new tops for the manifolds and welding them on.

Doug
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Old 08-02-2006, 03:23 PM
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Timing is everything I guess! My local sign company has a vacuum table with a mill on it to do big metal signs and they are doing my plates this week. I just handed them the patterns traced on paper and they scanned them in and let the mill do the rest.

I opted for the 5/8th plate and it came in looking just fine. I'll still have gaskets for everything but I'm not worried about sealing anymore.

I wanted to be over there to watch and possibly film it but I didn't hear from the operator today.

if all goes well, I'll have the hood off the Marauder this weekend and begin the final install with the blower. I am excited!!

john
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