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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2013, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John long View Post
When painting a truck cab shell (stripped down to just the cab) what do you paint first. I started with the roof and worked my way down. I am still getting over spray on the roof and the top of the cowl when finished.
Is there a set of basic steps that I should take to avoid this issue? (I.e. door jams, window frames then the sides).
Help! [ end quote]

I always start low and at the furthest point from the exhaust fan. Do the roof as you work your way around toward the fan. The reason for this is that the overspray that settles on the upper level surfaces and toward the movement of the air will be melted in by the paint as you apply it. If you work the other direction that cloud of overspray will settle on top of your freshly sprayed paint.

Hope this helps

John L
Hey John, I don't want to to go over any ones head and I in no way think that the way I attack a job is by any means the only way...When I spray anything, especially anything large. like a complete or a front clip...anything of that size. I start at the bottom...bottom of the fenders...bottom of the doors, bottom of the quarters...always the bottom and work my way up to the middle...the middle of the hood, jump to the center of the hood and work my way down to the bottom of the fenders... bottom of the doors to the middle if the roof, jump over, middle of the roof to the bottom of the doors...bottom of the quarters to the middle of the deck lid and jump to the other side of the vehicle and continue with the middle of the deck lid to the bottom of the quarters. If I do a complete in three sections, I never end up with a dry edge... I never end up with dry spray in the center of a top panel...I've had situations where temperatures have changed and the only control I had was the pattern I sprayed when the change occurred during a paint or priming job. This method has saved me many times....

Hope you understand where I'm going with this and not trying to hijack the thread.

Ray

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 06-17-2013, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
Hey John, I don't want to to go over any ones head and I in no way think that the way I attack a job is by any means the only way...When I spray anything, especially anything large. like a complete or a front clip...anything of that size. I start at the bottom...bottom of the fenders...bottom of the doors, bottom of the quarters...always the bottom and work my way up to the middle...the middle of the hood, jump to the center of the hood and work my way down to the bottom of the fenders... bottom of the doors to the middle if the roof, jump over, middle of the roof to the bottom of the doors...bottom of the quarters to the middle of the deck lid and jump to the other side of the vehicle and continue with the middle of the deck lid to the bottom of the quarters. If I do a complete in three sections, I never end up with a dry edge... I never end up with dry spray in the center of a top panel...I've had situations where temperatures have changed and the only control I had was the pattern I sprayed when the change occurred during a paint or priming job. This method has saved me many times....

Hope you understand where I'm going with this and not trying to hijack the thread.

Ray
Makes perfect sense, I really like this idea. I think this is how I'll do mine. It'd be nice if you could make a vid sometime. I like to watch pro's paint.
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Old 06-17-2013, 09:18 PM
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Thanks Lizer...I've seen many people paint, they all paint differently...some faster some slower, some with more overlap some with less...This is what works for me and to me it made sense to minimize over spray and especially dry spray...sides flash slower than tops... so if I can avoid getting a dry edge in the center of my hood, to me it made sense. This is not to say that what others do is wrong...all I'm saying is that it works for me and might work for others.

As far a s video's go...I just learned how to post pictures..one step at a time my friend, LOL.

Ray
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Old 06-17-2013, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by chief36chevy View Post
Ok I blocked the cab and added filler I let dry over night. The next day I sanded the filler and cleaned the cab with PRE I let it set it in my paint both overnight. The next day I gave it another coat of epoxy. The cow issues are a little better but I still have overspray issues.
When painting a truck cab shell (stripped down to just the cab) what do you paint first. I started with the roof and worked my way down. I am still getting over spray on the roof and the top of the cowl when finished.
Is there a set of basic steps that I should take to avoid this issue? (I.e. door jams, window frames then the sides).
Help!
and
I confused as well...is PRE 1 a cleaner that is used prior to applying a primer or a top coat?...I'm sorry, I've never heard of it before...my concern is that you should never under any circumstances use a solvent cleaner on bare Body filler...I'm glad you let it sit overnight...but filler is a sponge...it sucks up stuff like pre cleaner like ... I have an analogy but children may be reading. Do not use pre cleaner, wax and grease remover...any of that stuff on filler...it will suck it up quickly and hold it...when you prime over top, the pre clean solvents will try to escape....in 2, 3, 6 months...after it's primed and painted and you will end up that you could have blisters in your paint.

Just trying to help.

Ray
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2013, 04:08 PM
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Thanks for your help.

Ray
Let me try to answer your questions.
What kind of tools are you using to block your filler?
I am not sure of there name but they have 3 rods in them that you can adjust to the curve you are working. I also am using those soft ones that are extruded to fit different contours.
What grit of paper are you using to block your filler?
I’m using 120, 220, and 320 with the sticky back to attach it to my sanding blocks.
Are you blocking your filler?
I thought so what do you mean?
What kind of Epoxy are you using?
Eastwood’s epoxy primer.
So what paper are you finishing your filler/primer in before you re-prime?
320 on the longest block that I can work in the area.
I think that I understand about the primer showing through the epoxy now. I think that I was rushing the coats of epoxy as I was more concerned with the epoxy drying in my gun if I waited too long. That is why I started to let the epoxy set overnight before I recoat it.
My issue now is I talked to a buddy of mine about the overspray issue and he told me to wet sand it with 600 grit and soapy water until I got as smooth as a baby’s butt and then seal it. I did the wet sanding and now I have another problem. I have wet sanded with 600 grit and ended up sanding through the epoxy into the body filler and bare steel. Can I go ahead and spray the sealer, then enamel primer, then enamel, or do I need to rough it up and hit it with epoxy and sand it again?
I’m sorry if I am confusing you but I am determined to paint this myself and do believe in the old saying “the only stupid question is the unasked question. To pros these may sound dumb but to me if I don’t understand I will ask questions.
You stated. Do not use pre cleaner, wax and grease remover...any of that stuff on filler...it will suck it up quickly and hold it...when you prime over top, the pre clean solvents will try to escape....in 2, 3, 6 months...after it's primed and painted and you will end up that you could have blisters in your paint
Ok I got that. When you’re done sanding you will have dust all over the place. How do you clean the filler before you prime?
PS It is not PRE1 it is eastwoods PRE.
Chief
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Old 06-18-2013, 04:41 PM
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Number 1, to block my filler, to block my primer...I use blocks that I made over 20 years ago...a piece of billet aluminum, all different sizes and shapes. All my blocks are solid...there is no block that will give you the exact contour of every circumstance...to get the contour of what I need I apply little if any pressure on the block, I let the paper do the work. Some contours are more difficult than others and that's where my different sizes come in.

2) As far as grits I use to block my filler, a lot depends on the size of the area that I am working...a small area I will start with 80 grit, move up to 180 grit, 240 grit, and finish in 320 grit. Larger areas, I start with 40 grit while the filler hasn't totally cured...it takes more paper but it quickly removes a lot of the excess filler, then I go to 80 grit and follow the previous grit selections. I block everything...my DA has dust on it from not using it much.

3) I used PPG's DP line of Epoxy for many years, until I tried SPI, PPG's Epoxy is a great product but it doesn't sand well at all, SPI gives me all the corrosion protection I need and sand extremely well for an Epoxy.

4) I finish all my filler with 320 grit...the reason I do this is that it only takes a few minutes more and it minimizes sand scratches in my finished product....Actually I can't remember when I last had sand scratches appear in my paint.

5) I think the last product you need to worry about setting up in your gun is Epoxy Primer...think of it this way, most Epoxy primers have a 3 to 7 day window in which you can top coat without sanding...that tells me that the product isn't fully cured for that length of time and should not set up in your paint gun. There is nothing wrong with letting the Epoxy primer sit over night before applying a second coat...in fact it's probably a good thing, unfortunately body shops don't have the luxury of time to do that.

6) I'm going to save you money...you have bare metal spots and bare filler spots correct...apply more Epoxy Primer over these areas...spot prime if you will, allow the Epoxy to cure, sand the spot primed area and paint the car...no need for sealer unless you are suspect of the substrate, being suspect of the substrate means that you are not sure what it is, or how strong it is, if your entire vehicle is primed in Epoxy primer, then you have an even substrate and can paint right over top with out sealer.

7) How to clean filler before you prime is to blow the dust off the filler...if you miss a little bit of dust, so what, your going to sand the primer regardless...after you sand the primer, you should have a solid substrate that a pre-cleaner can't penetrate and it will dry quickly....blow, tack and paint.

I hope this answers your questions, if you have more or unsure, feel free to ask.

Ray
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 06-18-2013, 08:30 PM
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Thanks Ray
So I can epoxy the bare metal and filler with out roughing it up first.
Then wet sand with the 600 grit?
No sealer no primer just Acrylic Enamel? As long as I donít sand through to the metal again.
Chief
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Old 06-18-2013, 08:48 PM
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A lot of these questions can be answered if you just consult the tech sheet that came with the primer. If you scuff the bare metal with 220 or even a red scotch brite, and clean and tack, you can spray epoxy right on it...at least two coats.

I can't speak for the stuff you are using. With the epoxy I spray (SPI), you can lay a slick smooth coat and then go over it with base 4 hrs later, no sanding.
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Old 06-18-2013, 09:30 PM
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Liser is absolutely correct...you can top coat epoxy primer as long as you are in that window of recoatability...That being said, I prefer to sand the freshly applied primer to ensure that all orange peel is removed, it is sanded and scuffed and is as flat as it can be for paint.

The surface has been roughed up by sanding it...it is ready for paint....If you do not have any bare metal spots after sanding you are ready for paint, enamel, acrylic enamel, base clear...what ever...you can paint it.

My friend, you are ready for paint...I think I have mentioned this several times...for a reason...I hate sealer, sealer was formulated to allow body shops to use an unfriendly substrate, to make it the same color, a similar chemical make up and then apply paint........I DO NOT USE SEALER....I have had arguments with paint company's about the use of sealer...after the discussion it has always been unanimously agreed with a proper substrate, sealer is not required.

So, to answer your question, as long as you have prepped your primer, there aren't any bare metal spots...After you have chemically cleaned the surface (any pre cleaner)...allowed it to flash/to dry....Paint the car.


I do cars that I charge many dollar for...I do not seal any of these cars, why, I know what I will have underneath the paint...One question to put your mind at ease...say a painter is doing a blend on a door, and going into the quarter, he preps the door, he preps the quarter...It's a silver color...do you think he seals the blend panels...impossible, he wants color match and sealer would deter from that.

My friend...if you have properly primed, properly prepped (600 grit wet for acrylic enamel is more than proper), you are ready for paint.

Hope this helps and best wishes in painting the car...if you need any more help or advice, please ask....I'm always happy to help.

Ray
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Old 06-19-2013, 05:32 AM
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Not to mention epoxy is used as a sealer.
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Old 08-11-2013, 10:32 AM
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I gave up.

First I want to thank all of you for all your input in this thread.
I was determined to paint this truck myself, but after my botched attempt at applying acrylic enamel I realize that I am not a painter.
With that said I would like to try to explain what happened. I used Eastwoodís epoxy primer and had problems as stated in the beginning of this thread. I talked to a body shop owner about my problems. He being a PPG authorized dealer (or what ever title PPG gives them) he asked me what kind of primer I had used. I told him Eastwood. He paused for a minute and said if I wanted to use PPG I had to take it down to bare metal and start over with PPG products. I then checked with a buddy who lives 30 miles away. He told me to wet sand it with 600 grit and then paint it. So I did, but when I was done I still had bare metal and filler showing in spots. I had the acrylic enamel primer and paint I got on eBay from APP so I painted it with that. At this point is where I think I screwed up. Iím not sure if I rushed the primer and painted over it too soon, or did not mix the acrylic enamel properly, or didnít have the gun setup right. But I got huge ugly fisheye and orange peal. I let it set over night and remembered what my buddy said a long time ago and got out the lacquer thinner and washed off the acrylic and see what I got. Well the lacquer thinner took it off down to the Eastwood epoxy. I then called my buddy to see if he could do the painting. Well he too is a PPG guy and told me the same thing to take it down to bare metal and use all PPG products. It does make sense to stick to one manufacture. So it was down to bare metal and PPGís epoxy primer. Once I get the filler (Rage Gold) work done and primed Iíll drag the parts and pieces over the mountain to have my buddy paint it with sealer, base coat, and clear coat.
Ok now to stir the pot. Iím sure that there are Eastwood guys, PPG guys, and others out there. If you can apply PPG epoxy primers over original manufacture finishes with out taking it down to bare metal than why would both PPG representatives say I would need to take the Eastwood epoxy primer down to bare metal?
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Old 08-11-2013, 11:05 AM
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Because they are PPG rep's and that is what they/we where taught to say. When you represent a paint company's product, you are inducted into the propaganda that their product is the only one and everyone else's product is inferior. That is not the case. I was a big fan of PPG's DP Epoxy before I was rep for PPG. I thought it was the best on the market and to some degree, for the time it was, I was right. There are other products out there today that will out perform PPG's Epoxy and you do not need to use one manufacturer's product throughout a job. If that was the case, we would need to know what manufacturer's product was applied at the factory in case the vehicle needed to be repaired at some point.

With your situation today, I'm not a fan of Eastwood anything. Is their Epoxy primer a bad product, I don't know. The reason I don't know is that I don't know who makes it for Eastwood or to what specifications. Do you need to strip the old Epoxy off and start over, in an ideal world Yes...is it 100% necessary, No. You can prime over top with a quality Epoxy...here comes the pitch....right over the plate. I prefer SPI for many reasons, one being that it's user friendly, two, it's priced right, three it offers great rust protection and easy to sand compared to PPG's DP line of Epoxy.

So there you have it from an ex PPG, Dupont, ICI and Nexa (ICI and Nexa are the same product) Rep. As they said on the old TV show Drag Net, only the facts.

Hope this helps

Ray
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Old 08-12-2013, 05:48 AM
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plus no pro will trust eastwood primers and paints ,it targets DIY'S, who knows what it is or whos making it this week...probably from China like everything else.
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Old 08-13-2013, 09:43 PM
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Body filler showing through epoxy primer

hi
I have been reading a lot of what u guy say, I don't understand all of this primer stuff. what does spi brand stand for, and what does DIY'S stand for? For the ones that like ppg epoxy primer is ppg mcp 270 epoxy primer the same as what u guys are talking about or is this another primer by ppg? I was told it is a urethane primer and can put filler over it. I think it is white ish about $50 a qt. with ( DTL 16 ] hardner it is about a $100.It is suppose to work over rust?? or at least stop rust.
thank you for any help
arlo
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Old 08-13-2013, 10:06 PM
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Okay...lets start...SPI stand for Southern Poly Urethanes
DIY"s...Do It Yourself"ers
#rd question...that is the Economy line of products from PPG, if you like your vehicle...I would be able to recommend better products at a similar price. Yes you can put filler over top of this product. It will not work over rust. The metal needs to be cleaned and rust free, then applied and it will inhibit rust from forming in the future.

Arlo...If you want a better product at less than 1/2 the price...try this.

www.southerpolyurethanes.com

That is SPI's web site, A quart of Epoxy primer in White, Gray or Black...will cost you $33.75. A quar of activator will cost you $33.75. That is $67.50 plus tax and shipping is free. With what you where quoted, your cost is about $150.00 compared to $67.50 from SPI. I used to be a PPG rep and used only PPG's DP Epoxy line...until I tried SPI's...I am sold, hooked and will use nothing but...and no, I don't work for SPI...The product is that good...and you can't beat the service.

Hope this helps....try some SPI, then this will really help.

Ray
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