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-   -   Body filler showing through epoxy primer (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/body-filler-showing-through-epoxy-primer-232683.html)

chief36chevy 05-08-2013 05:55 PM

Body filler showing through epoxy primer
 
Ok I removed all the paint and filler on my 36 Chevy. I then applied 2 coats of epoxy primer. I then did the body work and filler (I used Rage). After sanding and cleaning with Eastwood’s PRE I applied another coat of epoxy primer. When it dried I noticed that I could see every spot of Rage filler.
My question is what is happening?
Could it be that the Rage is absorbing the epoxy like a sponge?
Would the epoxy then work as a sealer?
Should I shoot another coat of epoxy?
What should I do next?
:confused:

John long 05-08-2013 06:46 PM

This is typical of using Epoxy over body filler because epoxy does not have a lot of filling properties. Usually a good 2k primer surfacer is sprayed on top of the filler and then blocked. After final blocking then a seal coat of epoxy is sprayed before color is sprayed. SPI epoxy has enough filling properties that you could spray it and block it but it will take more than one coat.

One word of warning. In most cases your sanded body filler is not going to be level enough for your car to be ready for paint. Since I have not seen your car I have no right to say it isn't but...... I would have doubts.

John L

Lizer 05-08-2013 07:13 PM

I've only ever used SPI's epoxy, but what you're describing is not unordinary. My car will look like a dairy cow after I seal over the top of my metal work with one coat of epoxy. Two coats of epoxy will cover the body filler. If you're sealing, shoot a coat of epoxy of your body filler spots, then shoot a reduced seal coat over the entire panel.

itsjusti 05-08-2013 07:59 PM

How smooth is the skin on your hands? If they arent sand a few of your finger tips and wash with soap then dry them. Now feel every bond area that is showing. Im thinking its just raised enough to show through not level with surrounding area. I know it may sound weird to do but feeling it will give better judgement. Also if you have magnigying headset wear it while feeling it if not use a magnifying glass.

Was it fully bonded where the middle was filled but the edging where it meets the surrounding area wasnt fully filled.

It might not have been fully 100% dry before first coating was applied. Idk as I wasnt there lol only throwing things out.

Lizer 05-08-2013 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John long (Post 1674121)
This is typical of using Epoxy over body filler because epoxy does not have a lot of filling properties. Usually a good 2k primer surfacer is sprayed on top of the filler and then blocked. After final blocking then a seal coat of epoxy is sprayed before color is sprayed. SPI epoxy has enough filling properties that you could spray it and block it but it will take more than one coat.

One word of warning. In most cases your sanded body filler is not going to be level enough for your car to be ready for paint. Since I have not seen your car I have no right to say it isn't but...... I would have doubts.

John L

John, after sanding my filler I'll shoot a single coat of epoxy to seal it in between coats of epoxy. This is because I'll most certainly have sanded through to metal in some areas. Then, within the 7 day recoat, I begin with 2k.

To reiterate, yes, I see every place there is filler and this is normal.

Lizer 05-08-2013 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsjusti (Post 1674143)
How smooth is the skin on your hands? If they arent sand a few of your finger tips and wash with soap then dry them. Now feel every bond area that is showing. Im thinking its just raised enough to show through not level with surrounding area. I know it may sound weird to do but feeling it will give better judgement. Also if you have magnigying headset wear it while feeling it if not use a magnifying glass.

Was it fully bonded where the middle was filled but the edging where it meets the surrounding area wasnt fully filled.

It might not have been fully 100% dry before first coating was applied. Idk as I wasnt there lol only throwing things out.

you should be feeling with your flattened hand, not your finger tips.

chief36chevy 05-09-2013 03:45 AM

Thanks all
I do have some over spray issues and a couple of spots that need a little more filler. I'll try to get to that today and block the cab and give it another coat.
Chief

chief36chevy 05-24-2013 05:35 PM

Overspray
 
Ok I blocked the cab and added filler I let dry over night. The next day I sanded the filler and cleaned the cab with PRE I let it set it in my paint both overnight. The next day I gave it another coat of epoxy. The cow issues are a little better but I still have overspray issues.
When painting a truck cab shell (stripped down to just the cab) what do you paint first. I started with the roof and worked my way down. I am still getting over spray on the roof and the top of the cowl when finished.
Is there a set of basic steps that I should take to avoid this issue? (I.e. door jams, window frames then the sides).
Help!
:( and :confused:

swvalcon 05-24-2013 05:58 PM

This is kind of normal on a large area. It flashes off to fast and is hard to keep wet enough to melt in all the over spray. At this point I would put some 2-k on your bodywork areas and then block sand. When your sure you have everything ready for paint, wash with wax and grease remover, recoat with epoxy as wet and smooth as you can get it and your ready for paint.

deadbodyman 05-25-2013 05:35 AM

Rule #1
anything that isnt masked off will get overspray on it. If your just masking of the imediate area where your spraying (lets say a rear bumper cover) then everything from there on will get overspray on it all the way to the front bumper....what we do is bag the car (a plastic cover) and cut out where the panel is to be primed....If I prime a car and leave my safty glasses out on the bench they'll be ruined with overspray,so if you dont want primer on it you better cover it...This holds true for ALL primers and paints...
Body filler will suck up more primer so what I do is spray a coat on the filler areas first then when that flashes spray 2 coats on the whole panel ....The filler might still show through as a flatter color (No sheen) but its nothing to worry about.

John long 05-25-2013 06:59 AM

When painting a truck cab shell (stripped down to just the cab) what do you paint first. I started with the roof and worked my way down. I am still getting over spray on the roof and the top of the cowl when finished.
Is there a set of basic steps that I should take to avoid this issue? (I.e. door jams, window frames then the sides).
Help! [ end quote]

I always start low and at the furthest point from the exhaust fan. Do the roof as you work your way around toward the fan. The reason for this is that the overspray that settles on the upper level surfaces and toward the movement of the air will be melted in by the paint as you apply it. If you work the other direction that cloud of overspray will settle on top of your freshly sprayed paint.

Hope this helps

John L

chief36chevy 05-25-2013 01:39 PM

Thanks for your help. You have all given me some good points to think about.
I gave another coat of epoxy yesterday afternoon and let set over night. I pulled it out of my booth and got it in the sun light man did that show up the defects. I applied some thin coats of filler than sanded the whole cab with 320 to knock off the overspray. Put it back in the booth and gave it another shot of epoxy. I adjusted my gun for more fluid and a smaller fan pattern. This time the cow effect was barely noticeable.
I am going to try John’s idea about starting as far away from the fan as I can with the enamel primer.
I want to do a two tone job on this I will be trying deadbodyman’s idea for masking.
;)

deadbodyman 05-25-2013 04:52 PM

I like to start off with the roof but I start at one side and work my way over to the other side ,I see a lot of guys like to start in the middle of the roof and go to the side then go to the other side and take it up at the middle again and do the other side but that dosent work for me I like to keep painting on a wet edge.So at first I do the roof then work down the jamb follow around the back to the other jamb then the firewall...If Im doing three coats of SS I do the same with the second coat...On the last coat I reverse direction starting with the fire wall and ending up doing the roof last...that way the roof has the no chance of getting any dry overspray on it .
BUT if the truck is still on the frame and has wheels and theres a good place to tape off of I always paint the roof only then the next day I tape off the roof and spray the rest...I'm short so I need a to stand on a bench , I'll do all the high work first and the footwork last...But everyone has a different way to do it and painting with the air flow is a good starting point for you ,you really dont have to worry much about the overspray when your painting (unless its a candy) because the paint melts it all together, just think of it as a tack coat.You shouldnt have any trouble using a SS its very hotrodder friendly...just be sure to use the proper reducer for the temp...

chief36chevy 06-17-2013 04:56 PM

I am still having an issue with what appears to be overspray on my epoxy primer. I talked to a buddy of mine about it and he told me to wet sand it with 600 grit and soapy water until I got as smooth as a baby’s butt and then seal it. I did the wet sanding and now I have another problem. I now have body filler and bare steel showing through the primer. I have tried calling him but it appears that he is not at home. So I’m turning to this forum for help. I am planning to use acrylic enamel. Can I spray the sealer then enamel primer then enamel or do I need to rough it up and hit it with epoxy and sand it again?
Help please!
:confused:

69 widetrack 06-17-2013 08:01 PM

I hope that no one minds if I jump in...I've read this thread a few times and it seems as though your problem is that the epoxy primer is not covering your filler and you have over spray issues.

Over spray happens. It can be minimized with a decrease in air pressure and gun adjustment...that being said, every time you drop air pressure from a recommended point, you loose something, atomization, flow, you get orange peel, etc...masking the vehicle is a great start.

You stated that the Epoxy primer isn't covering your filler work....I have questions, what kind of tools are you using to block your filler? What grit of paper are you using to block your filler? Are you blocking your filler? What kind of Epoxy are you using?

There is a big difference between sanding and blocking...if you sand your filler with a course grit of paper and re-prime with epoxy primer, that primer will be sucked up like a sponge. I start fairly course, and finish with 320 grit, apply another coat of primer...I expect the primer to be sucked into the filler, it's doing it's job. the fact that the primer is being sucked into the filler means that you are getting mechanical and chemical adhesion between your filler and your epoxy primer...if you finished it in course paper...re-prime and finish it in course paper....you have a cycle. So what paper are you finishing your filler/primer in before you re-prime?

If you can answer a few questions and I hope I can help.

Ray


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