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Body part clearance on trunk lid to quarter panel

11K views 61 replies 8 participants last post by  tech69 
#1 ·
Can you tell me where I may find the tolerance on a 1970 Camaro RS trunk lid to quarter panel. Thank you
 
#34 ·
If your gonna go the quickest easiest way to close the gap wouldnt it be easier and better to weld the rod on the deck lids edge rather than cut,spread, weld and bondo the 1/4 and take an even bigger gamble of warping th 1/4???.....
I imagine the time saving would be concederable since you could probably get away with doing only one side with an 1/8" rod and sliding the deck over??? makes sence to me....
getting good gaps at the beginning of the installation is the way to go though. heres some pics to look at mabee they can help...
when installing full aftermarket 1/4's I find that the jambs edges arent very sharp (rounded) and the gaps are hard to get right,they need a lot of massaging.I see a lot of guys just give up and say good enoughand blame it on bad sheetmetal even go as far as stuffing bondo in the jamb to close it up...getting good gaps in aftermarket sheetmetal IS a challenge but its worth all the extra time..repairing it afterwards is second rate and shows off a lack of experianceand pride in the tec's work a good tec always has quality come first before anything else ,the amount of money he's making on the job is way down on the list ... A not so good tec always puts the money first and is willing to put out second rate work and say there wasnt enough money to do it right,funny thing is every single job they do is like that...(just an excuse for lack of talent)
I'm sorry to say ,I just have to blame it on the tec...he needs to make it right if he even can. Or you should find someone else that the can...
The thing is, if he left something so obvious as bad gaps ,what has he done wrong that you cant see??? you better get in there and check it out top to bottom or have someone that knows what to look for do it...Bad gaps are just the first sign of a poor quality job...
 

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#35 ·
I mentioned doing it on the quarter cause the line is already there, it's straight, and that's where the problem is...but is most likely rounder than needed as you mentioned. As far as checking the guy's work, I would check the flange to the rocker and the under side.

Love what you said about quality and pride. I agree and i put my neck on the line to do so.
 
#36 ·
Good post Mike...I just want to reiterate that the method I outlined earlier is a fix for the situation we have today and if the repairs had been done correctly originally we wouldn't be having this thread going on now...Mike is right, what else may be buried underneath the primer and usually if there's something obviously wrong, there's something else wrong that isn't obvious.

I've used the 1/8th welding rod to get proper gaps on pre 1940's cars only so far, the gaps that are present in many of these 70 plus year old cars may have existed from the factory or over time they reared their ugly head...that being said...it may help the OP to do a repair that perhaps isn't 100% and wouldn't recommend this type of method for say a #'s matching LS6 Chevelle (that's why I asked if the car was extra rare). The proper fix would be to remove the quarters, install them using the deck lid to achieve the gaps wanted, an alternative to that would be to use Tech 69's approach. We now have 3 methods to solve a situation that was created...the choice is up to the OP and I would welcome any other recommendations. It's the OP that has asked for help and advice and I hope the solutions offered help in his endeavour.

Ray
 
#37 · (Edited)
There are lots of ways to get perfect gaps with metal work, my concerns is that the poster could start doing these things when in actually it requires something else entirely like simply moving the lid forward or back. We really need photos to know what to tell him.

There are often very simple methods to solve problems, I just hate for him to jump into cutting and welding when it could be something much simpler. I am just guessing of course it may very well need a LOT of serious surgery, but without photos we are only guessing at what THIS car needs.

Something goofy like the lid they fitted the quarters with was the original and now the poster is putting on a new repro, we don't have enough info.

Brian
 
#43 ·
The brite side to your problem is the gap is slightly too big rather than too small.:confused:
You have several ways to cover this problem without cutting it appart:mwink:
As long as your gap is even on both sides around 3/16 or even to the fender to door gap would likely be acceptable:thumbup:
 
#39 ·
True enough Brian, we're assuming that all usual adjusting methods have been used, also assuming that the quarter was installed wrong and what may be standard procedure for people in the industry may not be for people that aren't. Pictures would be helpful and again Brian, true, we need more information before the OP starts cutting and or welding.

Ray
 
#44 ·
Brian,

Thank you for your suggestion on the Fisher Body Manual and the Assembly Manual. I have both and neither has this specification. Please direct me to something official. Thank you
That is official and believe me, if you don't find this particular thing in there you will be glad you have them and be using them for other things.

Have you posted this over at Team Camaro Technical Question & Answer Forum - Camaros.net

Brian
 
#45 ·
I am sorry about that laxnedw but I was certain it would have that info, sometimes they are not easy to find stuff in with just a little photo here or there with a drawing, are you sure it isn't there?

Brian
 
#48 ·
That there isn't a real set guideline on these cars. They were all over the place from the factory and in fact that panels fit like every loving crap. If you built your car exactly as a stone original barn find people would laugh at you the panels fit so bad.

Get them even around the edges with a 1/8" to 1/4" gap and you are good to go.

Brian
 
#49 ·
I know this hasn't a thing to do with this thread being it isn't a 70 Camaro but I was looking for some panel fit pictures of an original 60's car and I came across this one from work. I don't know what kind of car it is, I forget. But it was a 2010 Infiniti or something. This is factory, the car was not damaged, it was near brand new.



 
#50 ·
Ahhhhh, here are the photos I was looking for of a virgin 66 GTO. This car is stone original with only a couple of spots of paint here and there done years ago to "fix" a scratch or something. This is how these cars fit from the factory.











Top corner of the trunk.





Rear corners of the trunk.













They were FAR from as nice as I made my 65 Buick Gran Sport panels fit and even they aren't nearly as nice as a 2013 Hyundai. My 65 Skylark that I drove for years I left as is when I repainted it and parked next to the Gran Sport it was HORRENDOUS compared and I honestly didn't make the Gran Sport that nice, it's still just a nice driver.

Brian
 
#51 ·
And yes on that shot of the left upper corner of the trunk lid the photo is over exposed (beautiful summer day) but you can still see that there was almost no gap at all, about 1/6". That is the way it was folks. They may have had some "guideline" for the panel fit but it was either VERY wide in range or it was just to have numbers written in a book somewhere, they were all over the place in reality.

Brian
 
#52 ·
I love perfect fit panels, when I saw this car at the Peterson museum I had to get a few shots of the gaps, I don't remember what kind of car it was.





 
#53 ·
I have a million of them. :D How about the details on a virgin 69 Camaro that a friend of mine owns?

Sorry,I wasn't focusing on panel gap I was blown away at how bad the stripes were and just general body and paint quality. But this gives you an idea of what your Camaro was like originally.







YES, the strikers and latches were painted over on the doors trunk and the striker on the hood!















And yes that is a Repo hood he HAD to put on the car. I don't get it, I would want the original hood on there be damned if it was a flat and boring, like the world needed another Camaro with a cowl hood. :rolleyes: double :rolleyes: :rolleyes:



They were FAR from perfect.

Brian
 
#54 ·
I'm looking at the stripes and i can only imagine giving that kind of work to a customer, let alone millions of customers over the years, I'd be out of business. I remember when I bought my first AMX, mu buddy's all laughed and asked me why an AMC,,,I told them because the fit and finish sucked as bad on the AMC's as it did on Fords, GM's and Mopar's. I think that summed it up for fit and finish in the 60's 70's and started to get a little better in the 80's...when the big three and AMC (notice how I put that) had competetion from the off shore guys.

Ray
 
#58 ·
How about the wrinkles in the metal over the tail lamp! And the painted screws and latches! LOLOL, I am sorry I just can't do a 100 point show car. When I had my Vette I was looking to build it 100 point. I was buying the Corvette magazines and in there was a car with bare metal half shafts with just the right amount of rust on them, that is when I tossed the mag and planned on building the car RIGHT not as they did on the assembly line.

Brian
 
#55 · (Edited)
Gaps sure have gotten better over time...still they did pretty good back when, considering what they had to work with and the factory situation. OK, what I really want to add to this thread is the following.

Here it is;...

When I was a kid;...

Dad said (so I know it must be true):

Panel gap is 5/32". Tolerance is, no visible variations along the gap upon a casual glance.

----------------------

And, I would tig-weld the edge of the trunk lid (or door or whatever), moving fast and skipping around. Get the 1/16" steel rod hot and bird-doo-doo the stuff down for buildup, then grind it flat at the surface, then mark a line to grind to for the gap you want with masking tape and cut that, then radius edges like the folded sheet metal was and just make it look like it's supposed to. I've added a lot of metal that way sometimes. Corners, whether on the trunk lid or the quarter that it goes into, are not an area where you want there to be filler if possible.

BTW this is a hobbyist talking...not something I (or Dad) did for a living, but that's the knowledge.
 
#57 ·
Gaps sure have gotten better over time...still they did pretty good back when, considering what they had to work with and the factory situation. OK, what I really want to add to this thread is the following.

Here it is;...

When I was a kid;...

Dad said (so I know it must be true):

Panel gap is 5/32". Tolerance is, no visible variations along the gap upon a casual glance.

And, I would tig-weld the edge of the trunk lid (or door or whatever), moving fast and skipping around. Get the 1/16" steel rod hot and bird-doo-doo the stuff down for buildup, then grind it flat at the surface, then mark a line to grind to for the gap you want with masking tape and cut that, then radius edges like the folded sheet metal was and just make it look like it's supposed to. I've added a lot of metal that way sometimes.

BTW this is a hobbyist talking...not something I (or Dad) did for a living, but that's the knowledge.
This is something that does work...I speak from the experience of doing exactly what "kso" has suggested...This thread, permalink #15

"Thanks Brian...if only I would have taken the time re-read the thread....my bad. OK, if this isn't a super rare, Big Block or Z28 car...(Something that they didn't make to many of) then what you can do to enlarge a gap on your doors or your deck lid is to take a stainless steel welding rod...take off the coating and weld it to the lip or outside edge of the deck lid...these rods can be 1/8 of an inch wide when the coating is off and if you weld it onto both sides of the deck lid it will give you and extra 1/4 inch of deck lid to work with. After it's welded on, install the lid, adjusting it to give you your best fit. Grind away whatever you need to give you the gap you want, apply a little filler on the welds (both top and bottom of the deck lid), block, prime, block and paint.

If this is a super rare 70 Camaro, I would advise to have the quarters re-installed correctly to get your gaps. I've done this on several custom builds (usually pre-war cars), because they are customs it doesn't matter, gaps are what's more important than originality."


I hope this helps.

Ray
 
#56 ·
My friend and I laughed at this when he opened the trunk. We had a decades old joke about these stickers.



Back around 1985 he worked in a shop next to mine and we were both doing 68 Camaros. When I was putting mine together I was out back with the trunk open looking at how to put the jacking instructions sticker and he came up and and said, "You know how you put the on properly, just as they did at the factory?" I of course said yeah,how? And he walked away from the car with the sticker and then ran up to the car plastering it on the lid and ran off like a guy would have on the assembly line! LOLOL. And it was a LOT nicer than on this car he had just bought!

Brian
 
#61 ·
I agree Brian, the only time i'd remove and replace factory panels would be if the vehicle was hit hard enough that repairing the factory panel wouldn't be feasible or serious rust issues. The wrinkles above the tail lights, well I'm not sure if that would fly today...the dealerships would point that out in a hurry. I like what you said...if your going to build a show car, forget what they did at the factory, do it right.

Pictures in this case would help out a lot, to this point we don't know exactly what we're dealing with.

Ray
 
#62 ·
pretty much what I've been saying all along. forget the spec and post up a pic so we can all argue over the method of repair already. :D

working on a 55 chevy and the guy says he wants 'factory' gaps without noticing we had already made them pretty good all around already. So I pointed to a door to quarter gap and asked him how crooked he wanted that one.

I still wonder if all those a pillars that are always leaving too small of a gap to the upper portion of the door on those 55's are actually factory or caused by the cowl being pushed back. I still haven't found any evidence that suggests it's from an accident, but I try to get a good look everytime before I porto it out a tad.
 
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