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Old 10-15-2012, 03:52 AM
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body Prep on my car

ok its time for my camato to get a real paint job, not the cheap *** job i did on my hood and rear deck

ive never painted a car before, the closest thing ive come to painting is heavy machinery and steel door frames/doors when i worked as a welder at a door plant.

now im not actually going to spray my car but i will be doing all the prep work, a friend of mine will be doing the spraying for me.

the car is getting a 2 tone paint job with summit single stage paints, metalic blue and metalic silver

first up i have a few problems

#1 i need to strip the hood down to bare metal, same with the roof since one of the previous owners touched up the faded paint with some latex housepaint to stop some rust spots

do i need to take the entire car to bare metal??

or can i just strip the hood and roof

car has some minor minor dents that will need some body filler but other then that the body is straight

if i dont have to strip the old paint off the other panels what grit should i rough them up with 400 or 600?

this is the 2 tone job im going to have sprayed



though im thinking a thin pinstrip on each side were the colors meet
im more then likley going to do the blue on the bottom and silver ontop

amost forgot i fille din all the emblems recesses on the sides of the car with fiberglass resin, do these spots need any special prep ?
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Old 10-15-2012, 09:58 AM
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How long are you planing on keeping the car and how straight do you want the body?
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Old 10-15-2012, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
How long are you planing on keeping the car and how straight do you want the body?
this is something i plan on keeping for a long time.

besdies the couple quarter sized indents on the doors and the driver side rear quarter panel the body is stright, doors dont sag , and all the body lines line up just about perfect
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Old 10-15-2012, 04:23 PM
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I have one comment.

If you use summit single stage metallic, you will not be able to cut n buff. You need a 2 stage system to cut n buff metallics.

As for stripping the whole car down... probably not necessary if the paint is in good shape.
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Old 10-15-2012, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Project89 View Post
ok its time for my camato to get a real paint job, not the cheap *** job i did on my hood and rear deck

ive never painted a car before, the closest thing ive come to painting is heavy machinery and steel door frames/doors when i worked as a welder at a door plant.

now im not actually going to spray my car but i will be doing all the prep work, a friend of mine will be doing the spraying for me.

the car is getting a 2 tone paint job with summit single stage paints, metalic blue and metalic silver

first up i have a few problems

#1 i need to strip the hood down to bare metal, same with the roof since one of the previous owners touched up the faded paint with some latex housepaint to stop some rust spots

do i need to take the entire car to bare metal??

or can i just strip the hood and roof

car has some minor minor dents that will need some body filler but other then that the body is straight

if i dont have to strip the old paint off the other panels what grit should i rough them up with 400 or 600?

this is the 2 tone job im going to have sprayed



though im thinking a thin pinstrip on each side were the colors meet
im more then likley going to do the blue on the bottom and silver ontop

amost forgot i fille din all the emblems recesses on the sides of the car with fiberglass resin, do these spots need any special prep ?
Okay, I have a few comments. Number one, usually if you have quarter sized dents that you can see, you have many more that a fresh coat of shiny paint will allow you to see. What I'm saying is as you prep the car for paint, use a guide coat (spray a light coat of primer over the areas you are blocking) and block all panels on the car and you will be surprised what you will find.

You always get a better job if you strip the car especially if the paint is original (being many years old and lots of oxidization) or if it's had a few paint jobs. If the paint looks good and it doesn't have several repaints, it is OK to paint over top.

If your using a single stage paint you can get away with a courser grit of paper, find out what the manufacturer suggests and go with that or even something just a bit finer. My self I would agree with "Nova Freak", base clear will give you a better overall finish and durability, and yes, single stage you can't cut and buff because your using metallics. Solid colours you can usually colour sand and polish (cut and buff). What comes out of your friends gun with metallics is what you get.

Pin striping is a personal preference, myself, I would.

The "emblem recesses" your talking about, if there where holes, they should have been welded. If not, use a 2 part primer and block them out.

How bad is the rust on the panels you are striping?

Hope this helps.
Ray
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Old 10-15-2012, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
Okay, I have a few comments. Number one, usually if you have quarter sized dents that you can see, you have many more that a fresh coat of shiny paint will allow you to see. What I'm saying is as you prep the car for paint, use a guide coat (spray a light coat of primer over the areas you are blocking) and block all panels on the car and you will be surprised what you will find.

You always get a better job if you strip the car especially if the paint is original (being many years old and lots of oxidization) or if it's had a few paint jobs. If the paint looks good and it doesn't have several repaints, it is OK to paint over top.

If your using a single stage paint you can get away with a courser grit of paper, find out what the manufacturer suggests and go with that or even something just a bit finer. My self I would agree with "Nova Freak", base clear will give you a better overall finish and durability, and yes, single stage you can't cut and buff because your using metallics. Solid colours you can usually colour sand and polish (cut and buff). What comes out of your friends gun with metallics is what you get.

Pin striping is a personal preference, myself, I would.

The "emblem recesses" your talking about, if there where holes, they should have been welded. If not, use a 2 part primer and block them out.

How bad is the rust on the panels you are striping?

Hope this helps.
Ray
will do the guide coat to be sure i can see just how flat the panels are

the emblem rescesses are molded into the ground effect pieces form the factory,tyhey are some sort of fiberglass/plastic material, most ppl who do fill them do use fiberglass resin to do so.

i was told fiberglass sucks up paint so it would need more coats or u would be able to see were the fiberglass is , is this true ?

all the rust is surface rust and there isnt much of it , reason i have to strip the hood and trunk is i had applied the rustomleum with the roller method to both panels , they are both getting stripped to bare metal.



the worst body repair i have to make is were the previous owner drilled 2 holes in the rear decklid to replace the factory spoiler with one off a firebird .

im going to tack in some filler plates just below the surface then cover with bondo and sand smooth. shoudl be fairly easy as i can acess the back side of the panel


i could prolly close the holes up with my mig welder but id be afriad of the heat form welding and grinding it flat would warp the panel

what could i expect the finish of a metalic single stage paint to come out like?

Last edited by Project89; 10-15-2012 at 08:37 PM.
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Old 10-15-2012, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Project89 View Post
will do the guide coat to be sure i can see just how flat the panels are

the emblem rescesses are molded into the ground effect pieces form the factory,tyhey are some sort of fiberglass/plastic material, most ppl who do fill them do use fiberglass resin to do so.

i was told fiberglass sucks up paint so it would need more coats or u would be able to see were the fiberglass is , is this true ?

all the rust is surface rust and there isnt much of it , reason i have to strip the hood and trunk is i had applied the rustomleum with the roller method to both panels , they are both getting stripped to bare metal




the worst body repair i have to make is were the previous owner drilled 2 holes in the rear decklid to replace the factory spoiler with one off a firebird .

im going to tack in some filler plates just below the surface then cover with bondo and sand smooth. shoudl be fairly easy as i can acess the back side of the panel


i could prolly close the holes up with my mig welder but id be afriad of the heat form welding and grinding it flat would warp the panel

what could i expect the finish of a metalic single stage paint to come out like?
Good call on the guide coat, glad to hear that your'e using it. Best insurance for a straight car.

Fibreglass can suck up paint, resin itself is less porous. I would still recommend a catalysed primer over any repair, it helps to give you a more consistent sub-straight (the paint on your car is catalysed and the catalyst in primer is more like the catalyst in the paint on your car).

make sure that the rusted areas are treated properly before top coating, in this order (clean, metal prep, etch or epoxy primer and a catalysed primer).

Tack welding a plate to cover the holes from the previous spoiler and filling them isn't the best way to go, remember if you tack plates from underneath you will have burn spots on the top of your deck lid where you welded the plate. If you go this route, use a metal of the same gauge as your deck lid, anything thicker will require more heat for the weld to penetrate and you stand a greater risk of warping the deck lid. If your not confident in welding the holes, the tacking method would work.

Single stage metallics generally do not have the same gloss and for sure not the same depth as a base clear paint job. Metallics in single stage lay closer to the surface of the paint and are subject to fading and oxidization. Like I mentioned in my last post, if you get a run, dirt, dry spray, orange peel or any defect in the paint it is virtually impossible to repair without repainting. Most of the defects that I mentioned can be fixed by sanding and polishing. Not to mention the depth and quality of finish you can achieve with base clear.

Any other question, happy to help.
Ray
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Old 10-16-2012, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
Good call on the guide coat, glad to hear that your'e using it. Best insurance for a straight car.

Fibreglass can suck up paint, resin itself is less porous. I would still recommend a catalysed primer over any repair, it helps to give you a more consistent sub-straight (the paint on your car is catalysed and the catalyst in primer is more like the catalyst in the paint on your car).

make sure that the rusted areas are treated properly before top coating, in this order (clean, metal prep, etch or epoxy primer and a catalysed primer).

Tack welding a plate to cover the holes from the previous spoiler and filling them isn't the best way to go, remember if you tack plates from underneath you will have burn spots on the top of your deck lid where you welded the plate. If you go this route, use a metal of the same gauge as your deck lid, anything thicker will require more heat for the weld to penetrate and you stand a greater risk of warping the deck lid. If your not confident in welding the holes, the tacking method would work.

Single stage metallics generally do not have the same gloss and for sure not the same depth as a base clear paint job. Metallics in single stage lay closer to the surface of the paint and are subject to fading and oxidization. Like I mentioned in my last post, if you get a run, dirt, dry spray, orange peel or any defect in the paint it is virtually impossible to repair without repainting. Most of the defects that I mentioned can be fixed by sanding and polishing. Not to mention the depth and quality of finish you can achieve with base clear.

Any other question, happy to help.
Ray
thanks lots of help so far

what would be the best way to repair the 2 3/8's holes in the decklid ??? the decklid is steel i might even have some pictures of the holes laying around in my photobucket i can post if needed

the emblem recesses were filled with fiberglass resin, i drilled 3 hole sin each recess and then used some balsa wood on the backside to make a slight standoff of the back of the ground effect pieces, then covered with ducktape to allow a smal cavity for the resin to go and form behind the recess to help it hold in place. once the resin dried i removed the tape and chipped off the balsa wood .

after that i used a skim coat of body filler to make it perfectly flush

these are the 2 paints i had planed on using, the combo pack with the activtor and everything else thats needed is 118$'s per color for 1 gallon each before mixing

this is the silver
Summit Racing SUM-CSUMUP307 - Summit Racing Equipment® Acrylic Urethane Paint Combos - Overview - SummitRacing.com
and this is the blue
Summit Racing SUM-CSUMUP309 - Summit Racing Equipment® Acrylic Urethane Paint Combos - Overview - SummitRacing.com

so say 250$'s in paint

just noticed they do have a high solids clear coat for the single stage paint
60$'s for one gallon
Summit Racing SUM-UP200 - Summit Racing® High-Solids Single Stage Clear Coat - Overview - SummitRacing.com

if i were to go bc/cc each gallon kit ( all needed stuff ) runs about 160 bucks per gallon of each

so say about 350$'s without the clear

and if this is the right clear its 62$'s a gallon
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-SWSC620G-12/

so about 450 in supplies to do a bc/cc
edit
+ andother 24$ for the clear coat activator.hardner
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-SWSH621Q-12/

now that i found that single stage clear i have another question ,

with the single stage clear would i be able to cut and buff those single stage metalic paints?
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Old 10-16-2012, 03:06 PM
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thanks lots of help so far

what would be the best way to repair the 2 3/8's holes in the decklid ??? the decklid is steel i might even have some pictures of the holes laying around in my photobucket i can post if needed

the emblem recesses were filled with fiberglass resin, i drilled 3 hole sin each recess and then used some balsa wood on the backside to make a slight standoff of the back of the ground effect pieces, then covered with ducktape to allow a smal cavity for the resin to go and form behind the recess to help it hold in place. once the resin dried i removed the tape and chipped off the balsa wood .

after that i used a skim coat of body filler to make it perfectly flush

these are the 2 paints i had planed on using, the combo pack with the activtor and everything else thats needed is 118$'s per color for 1 gallon each before mixing

this is the silver
Summit Racing SUM-CSUMUP307 - Summit Racing Equipment® Acrylic Urethane Paint Combos - Overview - SummitRacing.com
and this is the blue
Summit Racing SUM-CSUMUP309 - Summit Racing Equipment® Acrylic Urethane Paint Combos - Overview - SummitRacing.com

so say 250$'s in paint

just noticed they do have a high solids clear coat for the single stage paint
60$'s for one gallon
Summit Racing SUM-UP200 - Summit Racing® High-Solids Single Stage Clear Coat - Overview - SummitRacing.com

if i were to go bc/cc each gallon kit ( all needed stuff ) runs about 160 bucks per gallon of each

so say about 350$'s without the clear

and if this is the right clear its 62$'s a gallon
Summit Racing SUM-SWSC620G-12 - Summit Racing® 2-Stage System - Low 2.1 VOC Clear Coat - Overview - SummitRacing.com

so about 450 in supplies to do a bc/cc
edit
+ andother 24$ for the clear coat activator.hardner
Summit Racing SUM-SWSH621Q-12 - Summit Racing® 2.1 VOC Clear Coat Hardeners - Overview - SummitRacing.com

now that i found that single stage clear i have another question ,

with the single stage clear would i be able to cut and buff those single stage metalic paints?
When you said holes, I thought like 1/8 inch holes not 2 3/8 holes. Best repair is to cut metal the same gauge and size of the hole, ( a little smaller like 2 5/16 or so is OK)and mig them in. Start by tacking the metal insert at 12 o'clock the next tack at 6 o'clock, then 3 and 9 o'clock and so on so you don't have a over heating issue. Do this until the entire patch is welded in solid, grind smooth, a little filler, block your filler, prime and block until level with the deck lid.

Your repairs on the recesses should be fine, just prime and block and your ready for paint.

You can't buff single stage metallics, however, you should be able to buff the clear that you put over top your singles stage metallics. I would check with the Summit spec sheets to verify that the clear can be buffed. Some poly-urethane clears can be difficult to cut and buff. If they are difficult or not recommended to buff reconsider the base clear route. Yes it does cost more but, ease of repair and for $100-$150 dollars more??? Maybe not the time to be worried about saving a few bucks, just my opinion. As you said your going to keep the car for a long time, what another few dollars now?
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Old 10-16-2012, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by 69 widetrack View Post
When you said holes, I thought like 1/8 inch holes not 2 3/8 holes. Best repair is to cut metal the same gauge and size of the hole, ( a little smaller like 2 5/16 or so is OK)and mig them in. Start by tacking the metal insert at 12 o'clock the next tack at 6 o'clock, then 3 and 9 o'clock and so on so you don't have a over heating issue. Do this until the entire patch is welded in solid, grind smooth, a little filler, block your filler, prime and block until level with the deck lid.

Your repairs on the recesses should be fine, just prime and block and your ready for paint.

You can't buff single stage metallics, however, you should be able to buff the clear that you put over top your singles stage metallics. I would check with the Summit spec sheets to verify that the clear can be buffed. Some poly-urethane clears can be difficult to cut and buff. If they are difficult or not recommended to buff reconsider the base clear route. Yes it does cost more but, ease of repair and for $100-$150 dollars more??? Maybe not the time to be worried about saving a few bucks, just my opinion. As you said your going to keep the car for a long time, what another few dollars now?

well if the single stage stuff could come out pretty nice with the clear i was considering going that route.

i need to talk to my friend and see if he can spray the bc/cc, i know hes done alot of single stage stuff, and ive seen his truck and some other cars hes painted and they all came out nice. not to sure if he does the bc/cc stuff but will find out

money is a lil tight but if the bc/cc will have that much more of an advantage save an extra week or 2 to get the bc/cc but it still depends on what my friend can spray for me
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Old 10-16-2012, 03:49 PM
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Talk to your friend, If he can spray single stage he can paint base clear. The base goes on easy, just get coverage and be sure to let it flash, The clear goes on like single stage, put it on the way you want it to look.
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Old 10-16-2012, 03:58 PM
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Talk to your friend, If he can spray single stage he can paint base clear. The base goes on easy, just get coverage and be sure to let it flash, The clear goes on like single stage, put it on the way you want it to look.
BC/CC will actually be EASIER for your friend to spray in the metallic colors that you want! You might convert him!
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Old 10-16-2012, 04:23 PM
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BC/CC will actually be EASIER for your friend to spray in the metallic colors that you want! You might convert him!
100% correct. You should see this man's (Nova Freak's) first solo try, Awesone.
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Old 10-16-2012, 04:36 PM
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thanks for the input and help/suggestions guys , lil latter i will post up some pics of my car so u can see what im working with.

with the 2 tone paint job im assuming 1gallon pre mix is way over kill for each color

do u guys think that 2 quarts( before mixing) of each color would be enough?

that alone would cut the paint cost in half
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Old 10-16-2012, 05:11 PM
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I have never sprayed Summitt's bc/cc. My experience would be that it would be enough. I've done complete paint jobs in solvent with much, much less than that. It does depend on how well the product covers, but, I'm confident that 1 gallon unreduced would be enough and you should have product left over.

Are you doing a colour change in the doors, engine bay inside trunk?

Ray
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