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  #46 (permalink)  
Old 10-08-2006, 09:09 PM
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Colormecrazy, glad to hear you're also a fan of epoxy primer. I know first hand how hard it is to grasp the concept of putting fillers over an unsanded surface epoxy surface. For years I applied epoxy then later thought sanding was necessary before any fillers could be applied. This has been proven wrong- if the epoxy is at a stage within it's recoat window the filler will adhere like it was welded on. If you feel you don't agree then please do some easy testing and prove it to yourself. Just adopting the proceedure of putting epoxy down before filler was also a tough one to grasp for me in the late 80's early 90's- it took some serious convincing from the PPG reps back then for me to give it a try. For years I reserved the epoxy under filler proceedure for only those jobs I felt deserving of the extra time involved, regular collision work was done with traditional filler over metal due to time constraints. I've monitored my work for 22years now and to say epoxy has helped durability would be a real understatement. Now everything I do has epoxy as a base-for high quality there's really no other way IMO. Check out SPI's epoxy if you're looking for premium stuff-it's a different animal.

When some of the major automobile manufacturer's require epoxy under filler for warranty work you know they've tested the proceedure and see the benifits.

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  #47 (permalink)  
Old 10-09-2006, 05:01 PM
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Thanks Bob, I've used DPLF epoxy for several years. I did the research today PPG DPLF(epoxy primer) TDS(technical data sheet) says; allow at least 30 min before re-coating and must be sanded after 1 week for re-coating. So, maybe, some times not sanding would apply at my shop. But, as I stated before, I use the epoxy like a guide coat, to do my metal finishing, and a guide to where I need glaze. Granted, I'll usually skiff the panel anyway. And, No I really don't have a hard time feeling highs and lows with my hand. It's just that a visual aid can sure help. You must admit the time it takes to scuff over epoxy with 80 grit is not even really mentionable, when, you consider the number of strokes with sand-paper your going to make by the time you finish the job. I do appreciate that the chemist that design epoxy primer do their homework. And, admit that it is a wonderful accomplishment to make something that polyester can stick to without sanding it. I'm a believer, it'll stick. But, I'll continue to put the "Good stuff"(epoxy) on, sand it('cause it's probably been longer than a week),do my body-work, and put epoxy on again (to cover the exposed metal), then urethane prime. Different strokes, I guess.
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Old 10-10-2006, 03:54 AM
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"And, No I really don't have a hard time feeling highs and lows with my hand. It's just that a visual aid can sure help."

I have always felt the panel with my hand. The thing is that it doesn't really matter how it feels, it's how it looks. I did a repair on a quarterpanel on a BMW Z3, that the paint shop sent back because "it didn't feel right" to them. Of course it didn't feel right, thee wasn't a place on it that wasn't curved! I sent it back, and told them to paint it. The customer was really happy with how it looked when done. That was the feeling I was looking for. LOL

If I am using a primer that doesn't have somewhat of a gloss, I will look at the panel as quick as I can before it flashes.

Aaron
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Old 10-10-2006, 08:11 AM
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Aaron, if that isn't the truth. There are many places where you could even have a funky spot and it just simply won't be seen. Say a horizontal line in the middle of a door. It would have to be pretty bad to see it when the job is done and painted. A vertical line, now THAT would be seen every easy. That is one problem we have with the paint department at work. They will kick things back that just simply will never be seen.

There is getting something "perfect" and just wasting time on a daily driver. On MY daily driver, the way I see it, if you have to get down and eyeball a panel with one eye closed and compare it to the other side and come back and eye ball, for Gods sake that is close enough man! Yes there is something there but if you have to look that hard, it is GOOD ENOUGH.

A restoration, show car, that is a different story. But one of the millions of cars out on Hwy 880 bumper to bumper, it is good enough.

Brian
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Old 10-10-2006, 09:05 AM
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I am pretty easy going most of the time with picky customers, as I am hard on myself if something isn't right. I once had a customer with a Ford Focus that pushed it a little bit. I had replaced most of the front of that car foward of the firewall. The car should have been totaled in the first place. Then he comes back the day after he picked it up complaining about the gaps. I walk out to look at the car with a tape measure, and he pulls out a dial caliper to show me the difference. Since I was at a Ford Dealership, I politely told him that if he could find one on the lot that was perfect, I would make his that way.

I will make horizontal lines that are supposed to be straight as straight as I can. I will make vertical lines look like they are supposed to. I will even make curves the way they are supposed to be. I WILL NOT make a driver PERFECT! If the factory didn't, why should I?

Aaron
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 10-10-2006, 06:37 PM
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Body vs. Paint... ....Lets not go there!

Well, well, now there guys. I assure you that if it don't feel good to me it don't get paint. Sorry but, it matters. I suppose it's a matter of integrity and consistency at this point gentlemen. If I get paid to fix it, I fix it (new or old car). Yes, I straighten out parts that won't show, as well as factory had it, for example: I fixed an '04 Lexus GX470 last month. The entire side was damaged. I fixed the doors and quarter even where the moldings down the side would cover them. The way I see it, the next time a tech tears into this one they will be hard pressed to tell it has been fixed. We fixed a Mazda Miata one time that got 2 new front frame-rails. I seam-sealed and painted everything, the firewall forward. When the car was complete it had to go to the dealer for a short in an AC wire. The dealer's tech spent all day digging on the front of that car. When my boss went to pick it up the tech wanted to know how a wire could have gotten pinched in the frame-rail, if it wasn't damaged in the accident. I guess it helps me to sleep good at night. Maybe "loss of value claim" is not something you guys are used to dealing with. We all know it don't pay to do it again. Try having some used-to-be insurance adjuster climb all over every inch of your work with mirrors etc. Keep in mind he gets payed a percentage of what he finds wrong. That will train you to be pretty picky.

That guy just wanted to know how to fix his door.
Sorry about the thread.

p.s. Try wetting with wax and grease remover for a temporary gloss to get a good look at how straight a panel is in primer.

Last edited by colormecrazy; 10-10-2006 at 07:46 PM.
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