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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2012, 09:07 AM
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I don't doubt Evercoat's quality or product at all, but I know for certain I'm certainly not the first DIYer or even pro who has found it overpriced. In fact I think it was our very own BarryK who turned me off from Rage because he thinks it's too expensive. I always search for an alternative product first and see how it's doing in the reviews before taking the plunge for Evercoat. In my arsenal I still do have a large bottle of EzSand and a can of Evercoat fiberglass filler, and soon a gallon of Slick Sand.

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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2012, 09:07 AM
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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
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Now, understand that I don't thin my filler, ever. I use it to do it's job, fill. Then the skim coat over that is done with Metal Glaze polyester putty.

Brian
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2012, 01:52 PM
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I think poly glazes are overpriced and most techs don't know how to use them properly. They do have their place though, like most things.


For big production shops that push cars in and out it's great as a final skim coat and those shops never really stress on materials, but for some reason they never want to put enough primer on the cars either. I found myself in love with it in a production shop.

In our restoration shop that stuff rarely gets used unless we're trying to seal over some minor imperfection before paint or it's mixed with good bondo in the wintertime. The imperfections we repair with it will be smaller than a dime and sealed and painted. So by the time it's half way done it's already dry cause it's sitting for soo long. I've had great success with a good filler and a tad of honey with no pinholes. Also consider the size of dents...in a production shop you're not fixing anything major with mud but in a restoration shop you're skimming whole panels.

My thoughts are it makes sense in a production shop but not in a restoration shop.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2012, 02:03 PM
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Let's say you are working an entire quarter, why wouldn't skim coating it with polyester putty work? I just look at it as the final coat of filler, it sands so much nicer and spreads so much nicer I don't see why not.

I look at it as the primer and will often call it that. If I can get it near perfect with very little need for primer, why not?

Now, it's been years since I put resin in my filler and if I was springing for the polyester putty maybe I would return to doing that.

I like to ask the primer to do as little as possible. The closer I can get it to spraying the primer and treating it like it was a new panel the better.

Brian
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2012, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
Let's say you are working an entire quarter, why wouldn't skim coating it with polyester putty work? I just look at it as the final coat of filler, it sands so much nicer and spreads so much nicer I don't see why not.

I look at it as the primer and will often call it that. If I can get it near perfect with very little need for primer, why not?

Now, it's been years since I put resin in my filler and if I was springing for the polyester putty maybe I would return to doing that.

I like to ask the primer to do as little as possible. The closer I can get it to spraying the primer and treating it like it was a new panel the better.

Brian
In a restoration shop when you skim a quarter you most likely have two rounds of primering to go. it's not to say the work isn't straight but it's just saying glaze don't last in a restoration shop and is overkill. All it takes is one dummy to mix too much of it 2 times and you look back at what was covered by the glaze and it's not much. In a production shop it's great but not so much in a restoration in my opinion. With that said, I really honed into my bondo skills working production at a shop that only sprayed 1-2 coats of thin primer and that experience has stuck with me ever since. The last car I did had zero dings to mud after the first round of primer and it's all because of that production shop. So don't go thinking I'm attacking production shops, Martin.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2012, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tech69
In a restoration shop when you skim a quarter you most likely have two rounds of primering to go. it's not to say the work isn't straight but it's just saying glaze don't last in a restoration shop and is overkill. All it takes is one dummy to mix too much of it 2 times and you look back at what was covered by the glaze and it's not much. In a production shop it's great but not so much in a restoration in my opinion. With that said, I really honed into my bondo skills working production at a shop that only sprayed 1-2 coats of thin primer and that experience has stuck with me ever since. The last car I did had zero dings to mud after the first round of primer and it's all because of that production shop. So don't go thinking I'm attacking production shops, Martin.

Henry, I don't give a crap about attacking production shops. I've done both and am well aware of the difference. On the same respect as you noted you learned some good filler skills in a collision shop. A GOOD body man or painter from a quality collision shop usually can do some damn good work and fast, and a more wider range of stuff being you are spraying all kinds of different colors and such.

But there is an expectation of quality that is usually pretty low compared to a GOOD restoration shop (there are plenty hacks out there). Generally speaking the expectation is much lower and when the expectation is low, so goes the techs, lower and lower.

I am with you on the subject of how to finish it off. I can certainly understand your opinion. And on a hot day spreading out polyester putty on a large panel can be damn challenging.

Brian
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Old 04-28-2012, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARTINSR
Henry, I don't give a crap about attacking production shops. I've done both and am well aware of the difference. On the same respect as you noted you learned some good filler skills in a collision shop. A GOOD body man or painter from a quality collision shop usually can do some damn good work and fast, and a more wider range of stuff being you are spraying all kinds of different colors and such.

But there is an expectation of quality that is usually pretty low compared to a GOOD restoration shop (there are plenty hacks out there). Generally speaking the expectation is much lower and when the expectation is low, so goes the techs, lower and lower.

I am with you on the subject of how to finish it off. I can certainly understand your opinion. And on a hot day spreading out polyester putty on a large panel can be damn challenging.

Brian
I actually think it's just two different things. I just try to take the best from both and learn from both. I got respect for both ends, but I think restoration is funner for me...I get to take pics, don't have to deal with annoying insurance companies or estimaters, and there's more pride and less business people to deal with. I looooove working with people where they don't mind breaking even on a job or even losing some money on it due to pride. I guess that's more to do with my personality...I like to work alone with no one bothering me and it's kickarse to have a shop yoda hanging around like Martin too. But for sure more money in production
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2012, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tech69
I actually think it's just two different things. I just try to take the best from both and learn from both. I got respect for both ends, but I think restoration is funner for me...I get to take pics, don't have to deal with annoying insurance companies or estimaters, and there's more pride and less business people to deal with. I looooove working with people where they don't mind breaking even on a job or even losing some money on it due to pride. I guess that's more to do with my personality...I like to work alone with no one bothering me and it's kickarse to have a shop yoda hanging around like Martin too. But for sure more money in production
I Know one thing I was blown away at how well I could do custom work after spending some time in a full on collision shop and learning collision work. When I think of how hack I sectioned my first truck and how beautiful my second one came out, they are like night and day. And my first one I did following the great Valley customs guidelines from a Rod & Custom magazine it isn't like I made it up. When I did my trucks cab it looks like it was made that way and it was 10% of the work I did on the first one like Valley custom said to do.

Heck yes I would like to get back into restorations or customs, you are a lucky guy to be doing it.


Brian
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 04-28-2012, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by MARTINSR
I Know one thing I was blown away at how well I could do custom work after spending some time in a full on collision shop and learning collision work. When I think of how hack I sectioned my first truck and how beautiful my second one came out, they are like night and day. And my first one I did following the great Valley customs guidelines from a Rod & Custom magazine it isn't like I made it up. When I did my trucks cab it looks like it was made that way and it was 10% of the work I did on the first one like Valley custom said to do.

Heck yes I would like to get back into restorations or customs, you are a lucky guy to be doing it.


Brian
Pay's not as good as production but I get paid good enough for me, but not what I was making at bodycraft but they're fun right now for me. We do cars that are 1ook+ restorations but we only do the bodywork and paint so it looks all fine and dandy like we're doing these lavish cars but are not doing the mechanical,interior, and stereo, which are always the show stealers due to the talented team that outsources it's body and paint to us. So even though we're not the ones in the spotlight getting all the credit, it's great to be apart of a company that has national name recognition. It's kind of cool. We're doing cars for people out of state and even famous people. It's awesome to be involved.
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Old 04-28-2012, 06:17 PM
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Brian Martin,Freelance adviser
 
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It does sound like a ball.

Brian
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