Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board

Hot Rod Forum : Hotrodders Bulletin Board (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/)
-   Transmission - Rearend (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/transmission-rearend/)
-   -   borg-waner auto trans. (http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/borg-waner-auto-trans-220031.html)

swvalcon 05-31-2012 07:15 AM

borg-waner auto trans.
 
Any old timers on here that have done brog-waners out of later model studie's or mid 60 fords? I picking up a 64 studebaker and will need to rebuild the trans. I've been told you can modify the valve body so it will start out in first instead of second.

joshp83 05-31-2012 07:25 AM

is it a fmx aor t35

mmerlinn 05-31-2012 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshp83
is it a fmx aor t35

It is definitely not an FMX as FMXs were not made until 1968.

Most likely a Cruiso.

If a Cruiso, just swap in a 1967 valve body to get the "standardized" shift pattern that all U.S. makers went to in 1967.

If perchance it is a T35 (and most Studs came with Cruisos), I have no clue whether swapping valve bodies is possible.

swvalcon 05-31-2012 01:48 PM

Its in a 64 stude GT Hawk that I plan to pick up this fall. I'am doing a frame off restoration on it this winter and thought as long as the trans will be in the rebuild shop I may as well have any up grades put in that I can. I wont know the borg waner number on it untill I get it out of the car but the car is all stock with 70,000 miles on it. It's a 289 with floor shift auto.

joshp83 05-31-2012 10:30 PM

thats just a tranny you dont find a lot of info on my dad worked on a t35 last yr in a amx and a 2 speed edesal last summer they seem like that design was a good one but not much info or aftermarket support

joshp83 07-04-2012 12:30 PM

under goggle serce look at bw12 transmissions found a lot of info on studabaker and amc units

matt167 07-04-2012 12:41 PM

BW was the Auto used in AMC's prior to 1972, and the parts for them are simmilar to the FMX ( some parts interchange but not all, and not cases ).. Been a few years since I'v had my '65 Rambler but it had a BW-35 and I seem to remember it would shift all 3 gears when put in the right shift selection

joshp83 07-04-2012 10:37 PM

it was showing the 6cyl cars and small 8 had a normal shift pattern

farna 07-17-2012 05:37 PM

The FMX is similar to the older Borg-Warner (BW) M-8 and M-10. The M-11 and M-12 are improved models that have a totally different valve body. All the M-x and M-1x series of BW auto trannies have a cast iron center section. The BW M-3x and M-4x series are lighter duty with aluminum center sections.

Detroit Gear (DG) developed an auto trans in the late 40s along with Studebaker. DG was owned by BW, or at least was by the early 50s. By 57 the trans no longer had DG on it, just BW (57 is when AMC started using it). As Stude developed financial difficulties in the early 50s Ford stepped in to help finance development of the auto trans. Ford got licensing rights to build their own version -- the various "O-Matic" models (stick Ford, Cruise, or Merc in front) and finally the FMX. These are all similar the the M-8 and M-10, nothing like the later BWs. Many internal parts interchange between the M-8/10 and Ford models, some even interchange with the M-11/12 (mainly clutches). Ford cast their own case and valve body though, at least for the FMX and late model "O-Matics"

All the M-8/10 and "O-Matic" models are THREE SPEEDS. They follow a different way of thinking than later three speed autos (FMX is similar to later models). They normally start off in SECOND gear, with first only used for pulling heavy loads or rapid take-offs, which were discouraged, of course. On the BW models the shift quadrant reads P R N 2D1 L. The "2" and "1" on either side of the D are small and to the upper left and right of the D. In D2, which one used to later models would assume was "Drive" (shifting all three gears), the vehicle starts off in SECOND. Many assume these are therefore two speed autos. Put it in D1, however, and it will start in FIRST. They don't hold first very long, it's a real quick shift at 15-25 mph (depending on how fast the vehicle accelerates).

The Ford "O-Matics" work in a similar way, but I'm not as familiar with them. At least later models (but prior to the FMX) will start in first in what is considered the "normal" drive position. Earlier models, up to about 65, start in second and have the center forward gear position as a first gear start.

farna 07-17-2012 07:41 PM

Okay, did some more research, but can't edit my original post. So here it is with the corrections:

The FMX is similar to the older Borg-Warner (BW) M-8 and M-10. The M-11 and M-12 are improved models that have a totally different valve body. All the M-x and M-1x series of BW auto trannies have a cast iron center section. The BW M-3x and M-4x series are lighter duty with aluminum center sections.

Detroit Gear (DG) developed an auto trans in the late 40s along with Studebaker. DG was owned by BW, purchased in 1929. By 57 the trans no longer had DG on it, just BW (57 is when AMC started using it). As Stude developed financial difficulties in the late 40s Ford stepped in to help finance development of the auto trans by contracting with BW to build half it's auto trannies. Ford got licensing rights to build the other half -- the various "O-Matic" models (stick Ford, Cruise, or Merc in front) and finally the FMX. These are all similar the the M-8 and M-10, nothing like the later BWs. Many internal parts interchange between the M-8/10 and Ford models, some even interchange with the M-11/12 (mainly clutches). The contract between BW and Ford ended in 1958, later Ford autos therefore were built by Ford but still using BW technology. (see http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-2840700154.html), The earlier Studebaker autos are three band autos, obviously different than the two-band Ford/BW units, which were cheaper to manufacture. Ironically Studebaker dropped the DG three band models after 1955 and started purchasing the two-band BW/Ford style models.

All the M-8/10 and "O-Matic" models are THREE SPEEDS. They follow a different way of thinking than later three speed autos (FMX is similar to later models). They normally start off in SECOND gear, with first only used for pulling heavy loads or rapid take-offs, which were discouraged, of course. On the BW models the shift quadrant reads P R N 2D1 L. The "2" and "1" on either side of the D are small and to the upper left and right of the D. In D2, which one used to later models would assume was "Drive" (shifting all three gears), the vehicle starts off in SECOND. Many assume these are therefore two speed autos. Put it in D1, however, and it will start in FIRST. They don't hold first very long, it's a real quick shift at 15-25 mph (depending on how fast the vehicle accelerates).

The Ford "O-Matics" work in a similar way, but I'm not as familiar with them. At least later models (but prior to the FMX) will start in first in what is considered the "normal" drive position. Earlier models, up to about 65, start in second and have the center forward gear position as a first gear start.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:59 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
Copyright Hotrodders.com 1999 - 2012. All Rights Reserved.