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Old 05-08-2011, 10:40 AM
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I am looking at a bottle of water i have and it says purified by reverse osmosis and sodium bicarbonate added for flavor..don't think I want sodium bicarb in my batteries..

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Old 05-08-2011, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by bsa_bob
I have been puting bottled water in my batteries and i have 12 of them/thinking that it was distilled.Is this a bad deal on this idea i have in my head??
Batteries: Use nothing but distilled water unless you like buying them sooner.
Cooling Systems [especially with dissimilar metals; iron, copper, brass, aluminum]: Use only distilled to reduce deposits, and stop electrolysis.
Always insure each component of a cooling system is grounded if dissimilar metals..
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Old 05-08-2011, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by DanTwoLakes
Once again you use peripheral sources, all with an axe to grind instaed of going to the actual source of regulations, the FDA. Here they are: FDA BOTTLED WATER STANDARDS

This is a known fact and you can look it up if you like.


"federal regulations that govern bottled water require it to be only as good as tap water, not better. THERE ARE NO REGULATIONS OR REQUIREMENTS THAT BOTTLED WATER BE ANY HIGHER THAN TAP WATER, and according to some recent studies, it may often be of lower quality."



Is tap water further "processed" before it is bottled? Sure it is, it is usually filtered but the filtration process is in addition to the city system treatment and it usually removes little or nothing in additional contaminates. Chlorine levels are usually reduced slightly but this is a taste consideration more than anything else. There are numerous test results that have been done on the most popular bottled water brands and most of these find, just like the Environmental Working Group tests, that they are in effect indistinguishable from ordinary tap water.

As far as sources just "having an axe to grind" just check them out, they are sources like ABC news investigative teams. The "International Bottled Water Association" is an organization that is part of and wholly controlled by the multi-billion dollar bottled water industry and does not answer to, and is not controlled or over-seen, by ANY governmental department such as the FDA. It is voluntary and it's rules are not enforced by law, basically it is a front to give the appearance of regulatory compliance and is mostly to give the industry a united voice against Government regulation and environmental and consumer group challenges, sort of like the fox guarding the hen house!


For possible legal reasons I will not mention the brand name of the bottled water that my acquaintance supplies but his is a small operation (about 20 employees) and he does bottle a well known brand. This is not uncommon and when someone buys a brand name bottle of water in a store it could very possibly come from the same source as his tap water.


The bottom line is that bottled water is in no way any better replacement for distilled water than regular tap water and should not be used in batteries, for that matter distilled is better for a radiator.
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Old 05-08-2011, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
This is a known fact and you can look it up if you like.
"federal regulations that govern bottled water require it to be only as good as tap water, not better. THERE ARE NO REGULATIONS OR REQUIREMENTS THAT BOTTLED WATER BE ANY HIGHER THAN TAP WATER, and according to some recent studies, it may often be of lower quality."
Go back to post #6 and read what you wrote, or have you forgotten by now? If you ever read anything anybody else writes you'd know that I agree with that statement, for SOME of the bottled water, not for "almost all of the bottled water" as you claim. I also said that IBWA standards are higher than the FDA's standards, which is correct, and 80% of the bottlers in the US are members of the organization and have to follow the stricter standards. Did you even read their standards before saying that they are only self serving? Their bottlers voluntarily bottle under higher standards than they have to, and also have to have yearly unannounced inspections by a third party inspector. How is that self serving? That is having a sense of responsibility for the quality of their products.

Saying the same things over and over, and making the same argument in different ways does not prove your point, facts prove a point, and you are just ignoring the facts. I'd really like to keep this going forever so that you can keep digging the hole you've dug yourself into, and can think that you won the discussion, but I have better things to do.
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Old 05-08-2011, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by DanTwoLakes
I also said that IBWA standards are higher than the FDA's standards, which is correct, and 80% of the bottlers in the US are members of the organization and have to follow the stricter standards.


Dan I have given you no reason to be confrontational so why are you taunting me (again)? You are missing the point! I never said that bottled water didn't meet that organization's standards (which is run by the same bottled water industry that it oversees ), I just said that multiple testing done on the TOP BRAND NAMES have consistently shown it to be indistinguishable from tap water and it is not a substitute for distilled water in a battery! It does not matter what the IWBA standards are and even if they are met, which apparently they rarely are, the TAP water from municipal water systems is what is in those bottles, it is still TAP water from a city water supply and test after test shows it remains pretty much as it comes from the tap. This water is NOT ok to use for batteries or anything else distilled water is called for. You are "splitting hairs" but your source of information is a bottled water organization, run by the industry in a manner constant with the industries interests, other sources such as the ABC investigative team and numerous other protection groups have shown that bottled tap water is little more than filtered and additionally sterilized water from a city water system. It comes from a municipal water source making it tap water and when it is bottled it may have been filtered and sterilized to FDA and maybe in some cases even higher standards but it is STILL JUST TAP WATER and can be used for no other purpose that regular tap water can not be used for. My whole point was that the bottled water outfits try to make this stuff out to be from springs and even Glaciers when the fact is all too often it is just from a local river! That is and has been my point all along and I Can't see what your problem is, are you saying that's wrong?


Again you miss the point, I never disagreed that 80%, or any amount, of bottled water was not overseen by the IWBA. You seem to think that outfit is an absolute authority but that is what all the media hooplka has been about, the fact that test after test shows that in spite of what that industry maintained organization spells out it makes no difference as to what is in those bottles! That's what all those protection consumer groups are trying to tell us, the water in those bottles is not what the industry tries to make us think it is, the IWBA is not a federal agency!


Bottled tap water is still bottled tap water even if it does meet the industry standards and that's all I have been saying!

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Old 05-08-2011, 12:27 PM
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Bottled water

I won't get into how bottled water is made. Distilled water is boiled into a vapor and then condensed back into water. It does not conduct electricity as it has no particles. If you keep filling you batteries with plain water your plates will soon short out and you will probably end up with a dead cell or two.A little doesn't hurt but a lot will. Dist. water is also used for spot free car washes, because it contains no minerals. Dist water however will not work in some vaporizers ( the kind with two elements) because it wouldn't conduct elect.
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Old 05-08-2011, 01:09 PM
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I can shed some light on the bottled water thing. I used to do some computer repair work for one of the major bottled water companies in my area.
They started with tap water, filtered it, added several chemicals to it to remove the chlorine and other stuff the municipality put in the water, then they added more chemicals to remove the original chemicals they added, filtered again, added a little salt just before bottling. The amount was small enough that they didn't have to list it but it added a bit of taste.

The customer said this is the way 90% of the water companies do it. Even the big boys only use a small percentage of "Spring water" and my customer told me it is usually not as good as what comes out of the tap before treatment.

I always chuckle when I see people paying big dollars for water
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Old 05-08-2011, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldred
Dan I have given you no reason to be confrontational so why are you taunting me (again)? You are missing the point! I never said that bottled water didn't meet that organization's standards (which is run by the same bottled water industry that it oversees ), I just said that multiple testing done on the TOP BRAND NAMES have consistently shown it to be indistinguishable from tap water and it is not a substitute for distilled water in a battery! It does not matter what the IWBA standards are and even if they are met, which apparently they rarely are, the TAP water from municipal water systems is what is in those bottles, it is still TAP water from a city water supply and test after test shows it remains pretty much as it comes from the tap. This water is NOT ok to use for batteries or anything else distilled water is called for. You are "splitting hairs" but your source of information is a bottled water organization, run by the industry in a manner constant with the industries interests, other sources such as the ABC investigative team and numerous other protection groups have shown that bottled tap water is little more than filtered and additionally sterilized water from a city water system. It comes from a municipal water source making it tap water and when it is bottled it may have been filtered and sterilized to FDA and maybe in some cases even higher standards but it is STILL JUST TAP WATER and can be used for no other purpose that regular tap water can not be used for. My whole point was that the bottled water outfits try to make this stuff out to be from springs and even Glaciers when the fact is all too often it is just from a local river! That is and has been my point all along and I Can't see what your problem is, are you saying that's wrong?


Again you miss the point, I never disagreed that 80%, or any amount, of bottled water was not overseen by the IWBA. You seem to think that outfit is an absolute authority but that is what all the media hooplka has been about, the fact that test after test shows that in spite of what that industry maintained organization spells out it makes no difference as to what is in those bottles! That's what all those protection consumer groups are trying to tell us, the water in those bottles is not what the industry tries to make us think it is, the IWBA is not a federal agency!


Bottled tap water is still bottled tap water even if it does meet the industry standards and that's all I have been saying!

You won't let go no matter what, will you. You didn't even notice that I agreed with you that distilled water should be the only thing used in a battery, you were too busy trying to form an answer that makes it look like you didn't say what you said. My source of information is the FDA. I am confrontational with you because you put yourself out there as an expert when you're not, and neither am I but I can read the FDA standards and read the IBWA standards and see that the IBWA's standards are higher than the FDA's, which makes the water bottled by their members better than tap water. The IBWA is self regulating themselves to avoid getting stricter standards down the road from the feds. This is the same tactic car seat manufacturers and upholstered furniture manufacturers used back in 1977 when they voluntarily came up with their own standards on flame retardancy. 34 years later, UFAC (upholstered furniture action council) voluntary standards are still the recognized standards in the industry, and the feds have never intervened. This is not noble on their part, but just smart business. The members of the IBWA have the same goal that every business has, to make a profit, nothing else. I never said they were a government agency, only that their standards are higher than the government's. If you ever bother to read them you will see.

To use ABC news as a source and then claim that they are the authority on bottled water is just as ridiculous as you claiming to be the authority on bottled water. When you make broad statements that contradict the facts you should expect to be challenged. You can keep saying the same things over and over all you want, it still doesn't change the facts. Next time write your answer in all capital letters, then maybe it will change the facts.
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Old 05-08-2011, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by T-bucket23
my customer told me it is usually not as good as what comes out of the tap before treatment.r

Exactly what Robbie says about the water he bottles, he started out with actual spring water and labeled it as such but when he contracted with that soft drink outfit they wanted to use water from a "known controlled source" which comes form a local spring fed lake where boats are not allowed to have motors (except for electric trolling motors). Makes sense actually since even if it is tap water it is just fine, it's not like the city water here is bad and in fact as it comes from the tap it is hard to tell by taste from spring water.
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Old 05-08-2011, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by DanTwoLakes
My source of information is the FDA. I am confrontational with you because you put yourself out there as an expert when you're not, and neither am I but I can read the FDA standards and read the IBWA standards and see that the IBWA's standards are higher than the FDA's, which makes the water bottled by their members better than tap water. The IBWA is self regulating themselves to avoid getting stricter standards down the road from the feds. This is the same tactic car seat manufacturers and upholstered furniture manufacturers used back in 1977 when they voluntarily came up with their own standards on flame retardancy. 34 years later, UFAC (upholstered furniture action council) voluntary standards are still the recognized standards in the industry, and the feds have never intervened. This is not noble on their part, but just smart business. The members of the IBWA have the same goal that every business has, to make a profit, nothing else. I never said they were a government agency, only that their standards are higher than the government's. If you ever bother to read them you will see.

To use ABC news as a source and then claim that they are the authority on bottled water is just as ridiculous as you claiming to be the authority on bottled water. When you make broad statements that contradict the facts you should expect to be challenged. You can keep saying the same things over and over all you want, it still doesn't change the facts. Next time write your answer in all capital letters, then maybe it will change the facts.

Dan I still gave you no reason to be confrontational and you are STILL missing the point! Those standards you keep speaking of don't change what we were discussing here, even most city water supplies meet those standards, what you don't (or won't) understand is that REGARDLESS of what the IWBA standards are water from city tap source is still tap water and not Spring or any other kind of water! Rant all you like but test after test conducted by consumer groups have shown repeatedly that most of the TOP BRANDS are indistinguishable from city tap water despite what ever standards it adheres to.

INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM TAP WATER AND IS NO BETTER THAN TAP WATER FOR BATTERY WATER, which is what we were discussing.

You point at my numerous sources and try to belittle them as if they are in some kind of conspiracy to destroy the bottled water industry but for what purpose, to make people use more city water maybe? But then you point to an industry run organization as proof that everyone else is wrong!

That's a really good one.
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Old 05-08-2011, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by bsa_bob
I have been puting bottled water in my batteries and i have 12 of them/thinking that it was distilled.Is this a bad deal on this idea i have in my head??
your batts. will be o.k.
in the future i would use distilled water
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Old 05-08-2011, 05:16 PM
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Oldred: Think what you want, believe what you want, post what you want. Even though you still haven't looked at the regulations of either the FDA or the IBWA you have to be right. I said 80% of the water bottlers adhere to the IBWA standards. That leaves the 20% of bottlers who would sell rat poison in bottles if it was clear. That means that the two companies that your friend Goober and Robbie bottle are part of the 20% that bottle plain tap water and smile all the way to the bank. You are missing the point, which is that no matter what you think, every company that bottles drinking water is not trying to screw the average consumer. I personally would never buy drinking water, I think it's ridiculous and a huge waste of money, but then both of my sources of drinking water are wells, but then I also believe we landed on the moon and there were no dead aliens at Roswell, NM in the 50's.

The original question was whether to use bottled water or distilled water in a battery. About 10 posts ago, and right from the beginning, I agreed with you that only distilled water should be used in a battery. Why can't you let it go, I agreed with you? The fact that you're not a bottled water expert or have any clue what you're talking about on this subject should be secondary. You're an internet bully. You count on anybody you run into giving up in a war of attrition. If it's a war of attrition, you're out of ammo.
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Old 05-08-2011, 05:55 PM
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Dan I have tried to be civil in the face of uncalled for confrontation and downright insults and now you are even insulting someone you don't even know, if you knew Robbie you would be ashamed of what you said and his water is bottled under one of the biggest names in the country. Go back and look at everything you have posted, take a good look and think about it. You have acted childish and been confrontational for no reason at all and over nothing, there is no reason this could not have been discussed in a civil manner.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DanTwoLakes
To use ABC news as a source and then claim that they are the authority on bottled water is just as ridiculous as you claiming to be the authority on bottled water]. [When you make broad statements that contradict the facts you should expect to be challenged. You can keep saying the same things over and over all you want, it still doesn't change the facts. Next time write your answer in all capital letters, then maybe it will change the facts.

You have done your best to instigate an argument over exactly nothing, you accuse me of making broad statements and ignoring facts but look what you said. When did I claim to be an authority on bottled water? I do have somewhat of an interest in the subject because that spring My buddy started out with when he started the business just happens to be on my farm and I did investigate this business thoroughly several years ago in anticipation of going into business with him but I still ran my shop then and I opted out, this why this thread caught my eye to begin with. This was about water for a battery and why you insist on making it a subject for a completely different forum is beyond me.Tap water is still tap water no matter if it is bottled or from a faucet and nothing the IWBA mandates changes that. Even Coca Cola had to admit that Dasani bottled water is nothing but tap water but you still seem to think that IWBA changes that? Consumer group tests have shown the top bottled waters to indistinguishable from tap water and Coca Cola along with several others had to admit they were selling tap water.

The bottom line is essentially most bottled waters are nothing more than tap water, regardless of the industry run IWBA standards and as such are not a suitable replacement for batteries and no better than tap water for use in a radiator.
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Old 05-08-2011, 06:05 PM
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Wow!!Ireally didn't mean to get an arguement started on this water, I went down an bought a gallon of steamed distilled water.around noon today.This will last me along time for my batteries, thanks all for the info and and input

We are all squared away now. cheers all bob s
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Old 05-08-2011, 06:16 PM
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OK guys...How about we agree to disagree on this.....A discussion on water quality is a subject we dont need to discuss on the "ELECTRICAL" forum.....

Most people feel that distilled water should be used....right?


I am going to now add another twist on this subject....Then you can agree or dispute it if you like....

I work part time driving for our local NAPA store....We have a skid of old batteries which are traded in for new ones.....I was in the shop one day and there was an old guy there sorting through the old batteries with a volt meter....I asked him what he was doing....He said he is getting old batteries that still had a bit of life in them and rejuvenating them to use in his windmill/alternator project.....He was building a wind turbine. I asked how he was doing this. He said that he dumps the old acid out of them and replaces it with a mixture of water and Epsom salts......He brings the water almost to a boil and adds Epsom salts and dissolves it. He then puts this into the battery and puts it on a slow charge for a day or so. Finding this kind of hard to believe and having about 5 mostly dead small garden tractor batteries, I thought, what the heck, give her a go.......I have done these batteries about a month and a half now and they are all starting my tractors, where before they would not crank the tractor after a day or so.........

BTW...I did use tap water, from my reverse osmosis filter from my well.....I figured bringing it to a boil pretty much distills it anyways.....and I am adding a crap load of salt, so why bother with distilled


Comments on all of this.......your civil comments are welcome
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