[Ropper]

Just wondering what everyone prefers, Joe Gibbs hot rod oil or Brad Penn grade 1? I have a 383 with 10.5 -1 and a non roller high lift cam so I need the zinc additive and would rather use an oil with it already in it. Thanks in advance

[Richiehd]

Originally Posted by Ropper

Just wondering what everyone prefers, Joe Gibbs hot rod oil or Brad Penn grade 1? I have a 383 with 10.5 -1 and a non roller high lift cam so I need the zinc additive and would rather use an oil with it already in it. Thanks in advance

I use the Bradd Penn only because of cost, the Joe Gibbs is twice the price

[oldbogie]

Originally Posted by Ropper

Just wondering what everyone prefers, Joe Gibbs hot rod oil or Brad Penn grade 1? I have a 383 with 10.5 -1 and a non roller high lift cam so I need the zinc additive and would rather use an oil with it already in it. Thanks in advance

We just keep on using Chevron RPM DELO 400 in everything without any problems.

Bogie

[v8hed]

I use Joe Gibbs HR 10w30.

[Mojo56]

I attended an oil seminar this morning presented by Lake Speed, Jr the son of the ex-NASCAR Cup driver... what can I say... it was an amazing seminar!

the junior Speed works for Joe Gibbs oil... his presentation was fact driven and unbiased. No once did he say Gibbs makes the best oil out there... he always said they make ONE of the best.

the origin of Gibbs oil goes back to the 90's after they lost their Shell sponsorship of their Busch team. With that, the special racing oil Shell provided went away. With it came camshaft issues... went from 1 failure in 40 to 1in10.

Very interesting... I was surprised to hear that the zinc in the additive package is NOT what protects the cam... it's the phosphorus! The zinc acts as a carrier in the oil to help the phosphorus do it's job.

I also found out how important a break-in oil is as the engine parts actually get a coating on them that adheres to the parts... after break-in the lubricated parts are NOT as susceptible to low zinc levels.... the new SM standard LOW for zinc is 600 PPM... the high is 800 PPM. The new SN (GM) standard is the toughest in the industry... too many details to go thru but it makes me KNOW that with a new GM vehicle YOU MUST use that new SN oil... even the "oil life indicator" won't work properly with an SM oil!

If you get the chance, go to one of these seminars.

[Dannyringo]

Originally Posted by Ropper

Just wondering what everyone prefers, Joe Gibbs hot rod oil or Brad Penn grade 1? I have a 383 with 10.5 -1 and a non roller high lift cam so I need the zinc additive and would rather use an oil with it already in it. Thanks in advance

On Joe Gibbs site, if you look at the various oils that have the anti-wear additives in them, look at the additive Calcium....That is the magic ingredient that washes away ALL of the anti-wear additives in mineral oil, which causes cam lobe failure....Looking at the Joe Gibbs BR oil, notice how low the calcium is, compared to the other brands on the market...He stated that Lucas had the highest levels of Zinc, Phosphorus and Sulfur, but look at how high the Calcium is in Lucas, compared to the others and BR oil....Br oil has the lowest Calcium...Which leads me to the last post of the man that went to the seminar today...He stated that Shell was their sponsor for Joe Gibbs and when they parted way, so did the oil from shell, with all the cam lobes wiping ....So, how close is the BR oil to the old Shell oil? I am willing to bet, Joe had it made as close to those old spec's Shell had~!

[Mojo56]

Originally Posted by Dannyringo

On Joe Gibbs site, if you look at the various oils that have the anti-wear additives in them, look at the additive Calcium....That is the magic ingredient that washes away ALL of the anti-wear additives in mineral oil, which causes cam lobe failure....Looking at the Joe Gibbs BR oil, notice how low the calcium is, compared to the other brands on the market...He stated that Lucas had the highest levels of Zinc, Phosphorus and Sulfur, but look at how high the Calcium is in Lucas, compared to the others and BR oil....Br oil has the lowest Calcium...Which leads me to the last post of the man that went to the seminar today...He stated that Shell was their sponsor for Joe Gibbs and when they parted way, so did the oil from shell, with all the cam lobes wiping ....So, how close is the BR oil to the old Shell oil? I am willing to bet, Joe had it made as close to those old spec's Shell had~!

According to Speed, they couldn't BUY the oil after the Shell deal went away. They asked of they could still GET some... but I don't think he really answered.

I DO know, and it was affirmed by Speed, that only FOUR companies in the US make oil additives. The largest is Lubrizol, which financier Warren Buffet recently paid 9 BILLION dollars for...

Gibbs gets their additives from Lubrizol... I believe AMSOIL also buys from them... at least they did back when i sold the stuff in the 70's and early 80's.

Calcium is one of a few compounds used as a detergent in oil. But the higher the detergent content the more it washes away the phosphorus. Using a better quality base oil allows the blenders to use less detergents which helps keep the phosphorus in tact. It also allows the less "viscosity index improvers"... this is what makes the -30 or -40 in a multigrade oil.

Interestingly, adding a VI improver allows the oil to "shear" more easily... in effect allowing metal to metal contact. You always here about stuff like STP making the oil thicker and, consequently, more effective in stopping such contact. but it actually makes the oil shear more easily... I was surprised. A VI improver is nothing more than a plastic-like component (my term) in the oil. Good up to a point...

Back in the 70's Ford recommended a 10W40 oils in their cars and light trucks. That came back to bite them in the ***... the VI improvers that made the base stock into a -40 oil attacked the valve seals in the engine. Many Fords of the era had plugged oil pick-ups due to the breakdown of the valve seals and those particles wound up in the oil pan.

He also talked about how a category three mineral oil base stock can be marketed as a synthetic.... but only here in the US. Attorneys for a certain oil brand (CASTR*L... he did not mention the name but that's who it was) argued that since PAO synthetics are manufactured by the gasses that are captured during the refining process, and are injected with hydrogen to make the base stock, their oil should also be considered a synthetic because they inject hydrogen into their mineral oil base stock to form their "synthetic" oil.

The judge agreed with CASTR*L... but that only applies to the US. PAO's are category fours... esters, mostly AMSOIL, are category five's.

Interesting stuff...

[Dannyringo]

MOJOE 56:

I just posted on here about using either a hyd. flat tappet cam vs Hyd. roller retrofit cam. I am glad that I took the time to investigate the current prices of these Zinc oils.. Bottom line is the fact that they are now more costly....Br by Joe Gibbs is running on the net in the 12.99 realm per quart~! I looked at Comp Cams oil as well as others and decided to avoid using the Lunati 60101lk cam that I already bought...I do not want to take the chance on lunching the motor...
Inspector1, on another site told how ill it is to take that chance and ruin a $2,500.00 + motor by using a Hyd flat tappet cam and the current cost of under $500.00 for a Howards retro-fit roller cam is common sense considering wiping a lobe and ruining the bearings, cam and oil system....

Moreover, my main concern is that I am putting this mild build motor into an RV that I drive a lot. I normally put at least 2,000/3,000 miles per year on it...'that oil would be way too expensive for a near daily driver..so, a roller cam would be cost effective in the long run for my needs.

[Mojo56]

Originally Posted by Dannyringo

MOJOE 56:

I just posted on here about using either a hyd. flat tappet cam vs Hyd. roller retrofit cam. I am glad that I took the time to investigate the current prices of these Zinc oils.. Bottom line is the fact that they are now more costly....Br by Joe Gibbs is running on the net in the 12.99 realm per quart~! I looked at Comp Cams oil as well as others and decided to avoid using the Lunati 60101lk cam that I already bought...I do not want to take the chance on lunching the motor...
Inspector1, on another site told how ill it is to take that chance and ruin a $2,500.00 + motor by using a Hyd flat tappet cam and the current cost of under $500.00 for a Howards retro-fit roller cam is common sense considering wiping a lobe and ruining the bearings, cam and oil system....

Moreover, my main concern is that I am putting this mild build motor into an RV that I drive a lot. I normally put at least 2,000/3,000 miles per year on it...'that oil would be way too expensive for a near daily driver..so, a roller cam would be cost effective in the long run for my needs.

In reality after a break-in period you don't have to buy the expensive high-zinc oils. More is good but you can get 1000 PPM in a good diesel oil and that's plenty for any daily driver. It's the high load, high speed applications that are more at risk like a BBC spinning 8,000 RPM's. But only the 15W40s and the like have the higher zinc/phosphorus numbers... 10W-30's and down do not... has to do with coating the catalysts in the converters.

Keep with the heavier oils and you should be good.

Another thing I learned is there is no "Universal Oil" that will work in every one of your engines...

This is right from Lake Speed, Jr.

[Richiehd]

Always intersted in learning something new. How would one get to one of these seminars?

[seltec8]

Did he say anything about the (TBN) total base number?

[Mojo56]

Originally Posted by Richiehd

Always intersted in learning something new. How would one get to one of these seminars?

A local author and former editor of Old Cars Weekly had this seminar at his shop...Gunner's Great Garage. Speed did another the day before at Behling Circle Track in Milwaukee.

I would imagine Speed does a lot of these across the country... ask Joe Gibbs Driven about his schedule...it is REALLY worth going.

[Mojo56]

Originally Posted by Richiehd

Always intersted in learning something new. How would one get to one of these seminars?

A local author and former editor of Old Cars Weekly had this seminar at his shop...Gunner's Great Garage. Speed did another the day before at Behling Circle Track in Milwaukee.

I would imagine Lake Speed Jr does a lot of these across the country... ask Joe Gibbs Driven about his schedule...it is REALLY worth going.

http://www.joegibbsracingoil.com/
www.gunnersgreatgarage.com

[Mojo56]

Originally Posted by seltec8

Did he say anything about the (TBN) total base number?

Yep...I asked the question.

Of course the TBN is what you look for when you are going to go extended miles between oil changes like I do with my CAT diesel (I go 50,000 miles). You have to sample the oil to be sure the TBN has stayed at a safe level.

The Total Base Number tells you how much acid the oil will handle before it's worn out.