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Old 01-25-2008, 02:32 AM
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brake porportating valve

IN a disc / drum set up on a pickup ( power brakes ) can any universal combo disc/drum valve be used the after market ones are a whole lot cheaper.

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Old 01-25-2008, 01:20 PM
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I used a aftermarket one on my streetrod..it was adjustable also.
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Old 01-25-2008, 01:38 PM
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If you are buying an aftermarket combination valve, it should work ok.

If you have a disc/drum combination and delete the combination valve, installing only a rear proportioning valve, you will have a brake timing issue.

The combination valve has 3 functions besides distribution of lines.:
1) it regulates peak pressure to the rear brakes in the event
of a panic stop through the proportioning valve in the rear..
2) it senses a pressure loss in one side of the system , and has a switch that can activate a warning light.
3) it delays activation of the front brakes until approximately 50-100 psi is reached in the system. This prevents the front brakes from doing all of the work at low speeds and prevents front wheel lockup in slippery conditions. This is the metering valve.

Check out the ECI brake page about that valve..
http://ecihotrodbrakes.com/brake_facts.html


Later, mikey
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Old 01-25-2008, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerrodsmike
If you are buying an aftermarket combination valve, it should work ok.

If you have a disc/drum combination and delete the combination valve, installing only a rear proportioning valve, you will have a brake timing issue.

The combination valve has 3 functions besides distribution of lines.:
1) it regulates peak pressure to the rear brakes in the event
of a panic stop through the proportioning valve in the rear..
2) it senses a pressure loss in one side of the system , and has a switch that can activate a warning light.
3) it delays activation of the front brakes until approximately 50-100 psi is reached in the system. This prevents the front brakes from doing all of the work at low speeds and prevents front wheel lockup in slippery conditions. This is the metering valve.

Check out the ECI brake page about that valve..
http://ecihotrodbrakes.com/brake_facts.html


Later, mikey
Mikey,

Your going to think I'm following you around....LOL's. I'm most likely going disc/disc with mine so from what I got from your link, I wont need the combination valve. Correct? I figure I will still need the proporting valve and the residual pressure valves. No problem there.

Thanks for your knowledge!
Dave
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Old 01-25-2008, 08:29 PM
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Yes I have had followers... They usually become disillusioned after spending 3 or 4 minutes with me.


4 wheel disc require no metering valve.
There are 4 wheel disc type combo valves that have no metering valve.
RPV's are used in 4 wheel disc systems that have master cylinders mounted below the level of the calipers. Firewall mounted MC's usually don't need RPV's

Later, mikey
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Old 01-25-2008, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerrodsmike
Yes I have had followers... They usually become disillusioned after spending 3 or 4 minutes with me.


4 wheel disc require no metering valve.
There are 4 wheel disc type combo valves that have no metering valve.
RPV's are used in 4 wheel disc systems that have master cylinders mounted below the level of the calipers. Firewall mounted MC's usually don't need RPV's

Later, mikey

LOL's. I'm still following you Mikey. Your information is appreciated and easy to follow.

I'm going with the under cab power brake set up so I know I'll need the RPV's. Can you direct me to a vendor that has the 4 wheel disc combo valves? I didn't see any on ECI's site. I've been digging other places though. Next I'll check Speedway. Will I have to go OEM?

Dave
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Old 01-26-2008, 12:15 AM
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Brake Tech Solutions has them, they are not on the website, but they are shown in the downloadable catalog..ask for part # VK359, Disc/disc prop valve. it's 85.00 without plumbing, 99.00 with plumbing.

http://www.braketechsolutions.com/BTSV101/Index.php

Masterpower has them also..109.00 for a kit with plumbing.

http://www.mpbrakes.com/products/pro...product_id=613

So does SSBC, i think CPP has them also.

In all reality, you don't need the combo valve for a disc/disc unless you want to run a warning light...I didn't mean to misguide you into thinking it was a better thing to have instead of an adjustable prop valve.

If I were setting up a new 4 w disc system for an under floor MC, I'd run a prop valve and 2 rpv's...and skip the combo valve.


later, mikey
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Old 01-26-2008, 07:18 AM
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I just saw an ad I think it was in rod and custom this month that eci now has a billet master cylinder with built in proportioning valve, residual pressure valves, and a stoplight switch built in! this may be worth looking into!It sure would eliminate alot of fittings/potential leaks!
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Old 01-26-2008, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streetrodderbn
I just saw an ad I think it was in rod and custom this month that eci now has a billet master cylinder with built in proportioning valve, residual pressure valves, and a stoplight switch built in! this may be worth looking into!It sure would eliminate alot of fittings/potential leaks!

I looked but guess its not on thier site yet. I'll give them a call.
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Old 01-26-2008, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerrodsmike
Brake Tech Solutions has them, they are not on the website, but they are shown in the downloadable catalog..ask for part # VK359, Disc/disc prop valve. it's 85.00 without plumbing, 99.00 with plumbing.

http://www.braketechsolutions.com/BTSV101/Index.php

Masterpower has them also..109.00 for a kit with plumbing.

http://www.mpbrakes.com/products/pro...product_id=613

So does SSBC, i think CPP has them also.

In all reality, you don't need the combo valve for a disc/disc unless you want to run a warning light...I didn't mean to misguide you into thinking it was a better thing to have instead of an adjustable prop valve.

If I were setting up a new 4 w disc system for an under floor MC, I'd run a prop valve and 2 rpv's...and skip the combo valve.


later, mikey
I like your idea.....with a means of a warning light.

Once more question... a little of the original path. I have made a few double flared brake lines but never used AN. Which is better? AN or a good double flared end? I need to know this because (like an idiot) I am recessing the hard lines inside the boxed frame. I'm just placing short sections of boxing at the desired inlets/outlets until I have tested them for leaks.....using hold downs every 10" to insure the hard lines won't be moving around....then I will finish boxing the frame. So I need to know what everyone would concider to be the strongest end? If I do develop a leak...say a couple years down the road (maybe never)...I would then place new hardlines down the inside of the frame.

I'm also placing the wiring in the frame with bulkheads at the desire inlet/outlet points for accessories. As well as a pass through frame to cooler outboard of frame rails for the trans mission on one side and engine oil cooler on the other side. I figured I would use the largest double pass cooler (the newer finned can type) I could find a place them between the running boards and the frame. There is just enough room. This would get them away from the exhaust pipes.

Dave
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Old 01-26-2008, 09:35 AM
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Making a clean installation, eh?

AN line flares are easier to make, and you can buy the ss tubing in a long length so you don't have to have any couplings or fittings inside your boxed frame. Use a 37* flaring tool.

Don't use aluminum line for brake lines. I don't think it is as durable. You can use aluminum fittings with SS line,

Speedway Motors has the best prices on all of that AN stuff. And it is good quality as well.

If I were you I'd weld a conduit inside the frame for wiring, terminate the conduit at the boxing plate. That way you could pull all of your wiring after the welding is done. Radius the end of the conduit and intersect the conduit to the boxing plate at an angle so you don't chew up wires at the outlet.

If you weld the conduit to the frame, watch the inside of the conduit for melted through stalagtites that can cut the wires insulation and cause a short inside the conduit.

HTH,
Mikey
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Old 01-26-2008, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerrodsmike
Making a clean installation, eh?

AN line flares are easier to make, and you can buy the ss tubing in a long length so you don't have to have any couplings or fittings inside your boxed frame. Use a 37* flaring tool.

Don't use aluminum line for brake lines. I don't think it is as durable. You can use aluminum fittings with SS line,

Speedway Motors has the best prices on all of that AN stuff. And it is good quality as well.

If I were you I'd weld a conduit inside the frame for wiring, terminate the conduit at the boxing plate. That way you could pull all of your wiring after the welding is done. Radius the end of the conduit and intersect the conduit to the boxing plate at an angle so you don't chew up wires at the outlet.

If you weld the conduit to the frame, watch the inside of the conduit for melted through stalagtites that can cut the wires insulation and cause a short inside the conduit.

HTH,
Mikey
So the AN style 37 degree flare is just as good (durable) or better than the double 45 degree standard flare? Man....I've been going through Jegs, Speedway, and Summit til I'm blue in the face. I've found soo many variances. LOL's. I was told sometime back if I go AN to stay with the AN configuration the whole way. I found 3/16 steel hard line and steel ends for making 3 AN ends. I also found the stainless line in long lengths as you suggested. Jegs has 72'' length of 3/16 stainless for $26. Just trying to sift through all the fittings to figure out what I need before placing the order. Wow....there sure are a lot of fittings. LOL's.

I agree with your conduit idea. I did that on my 69 pro street and ended up wishing I had plumbed everything else inside.

Thanks,
Dave

Never mind Jegs price. LOL's. Your right. Speedway does have good prices. 20 foot roll for the same price. $26

Dave

Last edited by Stovebolter; 01-26-2008 at 09:59 AM.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2008, 10:17 AM
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There is a reason that A-N means Army-Navy.
Durable, easy to fabricate, easy to maintain and dissassemble , can be used numerous times without tearing up the flare,(do that with SAE stuff) and if done right, seals better.

I do like using SS fittings with SS brake line though. $$



Later, mikey
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Old 01-26-2008, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by powerrodsmike
There is a reason that A-N means Army-Navy.
Durable, easy to fabricate, easy to maintain and dissassemble , can be used numerous times without tearing up the flare,(do that with SAE stuff) and if done right, seals better.

I do like using SS fittings with SS brake line though. $$



Later, mikey

I like the SS fittings too. Just having trouble finding who make the stainless 'short' 3AN bulkhead fitting. I dont need the thru frame fittings as these will be inside the frame and only passing through one side of the frame. There are a lot of places that make brass, alluminum, and steel (zinc plated). Just cant find the short stainless.

Dave
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Old 01-26-2008, 10:42 AM
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Here is a link to a Goodridge catalog in a PDF.
http://www.goodridge.net/usa/pdf/Goo...alogue2007.pdf

That ought to keep you busy for a minute or 2....

You could try one of the SS specialty houses as well, like inline tube..There are a few others , but their names escape me at the moment.

I'll bet the OP is wondering what happened to his thread.

Invasion of the thread snatchers....

Later, mikey
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