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Old 12-30-2011, 08:27 AM
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Brakes-MII manual to what

Hi, It's time to do something with my brakes. They are '76 MII manual stock with upgraded rotors 5 lugs. Rear drums- '73 Nova. All under a 31 chevy full fendered car approx. 3000 lbs. with 350/350.
I have a soft/spongy pedal that I just can't get rid of. I have a combo valve that has a slight leak at the metering plug. I think this is where air is getting back into the system. I usually have to bleed every 1000-1500 miles or for me 1-2 times per driving season and have to double pump after not much driving.
I also want a little more stopping power.
I have under the floor MC and have no room for power MC in that location. I would have to go with a firewall mount swing pedal. That will go into the engine compartment over 14". Yikes.

Has anyone mounted the booster inside the firewall?
Has anyone used the remote booster for just the front discs?
I have the residual valves in also.
Thanks for any replys, Bob.

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Old 12-30-2011, 09:15 AM
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they make some pretty small boosters for under the floor
I will search around, see what I can find

also, just some bigger rotors and better calipers would help alot

another often over looked upgrade, is just using very high performance grades of lining on the system you already have (after you fix the leak)
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Old 12-30-2011, 09:17 AM
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I am by no means a brake expert but I have been down this road with a very similar setup . Mine is a 3 window steel coupe sbc MII frontend but no fenders so a little less weight .

I'd say you have already put your finger on the spongy pedal problem , the leak you mentioned . It will be hard to know just how good your brakes actually perform until you fix that . I'd say do what ever you have to do to get the leak stopped , bleed the system again and take a drive and see how it stops with out the spongy pedal . If you still have to double pump the brakes . check to see that you have the correct residual valves installed . This can cause you to have to pump the brakes to take up the extra travel .
If the pedal is firm and no pumping required , you are on the right track . If the pedal is firm but has a lot of travel , try a M/C with a larger bore . If the pedal is rock hard with very little travel , try a M/C with a smaller bore .

This is the route I took and it stopped a lot better after I got the brakes tuned in but still not good enough . I then put discs on the back , and after getting the prop valve adjusted , it stops great without the power booster . I know you asked about booster placement and that was a problem for me too . I for the life of me couldn't come up with anyplace to put it . That combined with low manifold vaccum ruled out the power brakes for me . Hope I didn't make you dizzy with the rambling post . Having a sketchy brake system can sure take the pleasure out of driving our cars . Hope this helps somehow .
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Old 12-30-2011, 10:07 AM
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with a quick search, the smallest I could find was a dual 7" booster , which is pretty small

also on that same site you can find some upgraded MII disc kits
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Old 12-30-2011, 07:50 PM
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Thanks for the advice and the links.
I am going to start with a new combo valve and better linings. Also I am contemplating a brake bleeder gun.
I reaith a swing pedal without doing some mod to the firewall due to the indent for the old chevy 6 is right where I would be putting the booster.
I have her up on blocks now after my last ride of the season just yeaterday and will have all winter to work this out. Thanks.
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Old 12-31-2011, 09:26 AM
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Same problem, lighter car, 27 T roadster, sbf, MII. I bought Heidt's conversion for the MII spindles to 11" rotors and GM calipers. Huge difference in how it stops. For under $300 it's a great deal. You do need to get the leaks stopped to judge performance properly and also make sure the residual pressure valves are as close to the master cylinder as possible and make sure they are working properly. One or both of those leaking back will cause you to have to double pump the brakes after sitting for a while as the wheel cylinder fluid will drain back to the lower master cylinder and it also can allow air to get in past the wheel cylinder seals/cups. One of the headaches with the under floor MC, but it does keep the firewall clean.
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Old 01-01-2012, 08:14 AM
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Late yesterday I got the inspireation to pull the brake pedal assembly ,MC and combo valve apart. I intended to get a new combo valve. However , it was leaking at the end where the metering valve is located. I was hesitant to tighten it when on the car because I did not know if I would be upseting any settings. Once on the bench and slated for replacement I decided to tighten it. It readily tightened up better theni/8 turn and seemed to seat.
So I will try reusing this. Any thoughts?
Also ,I need to make a new hat bracket for the pedal assembly. I don't like the mickey mouse one I made years ago. There was noticable torqueing going on.
My frame is not boxed . It is 5" tall . I plan on a hat bracket that tall and 1/4" plate. I need that strength because I have no other brackets to carry any of the load.
That will be about 5" from the frame to the bracket. If I box the frame in that area it will cut tha down to 3". Any thoughts?
In the pics you can see the added on brackets that will be cut off. Then the pedal assembly bkt. will be attached to the new hat bracket.
I'll make up a cardborad model to see how it works first.
Thanks
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:08 AM
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really that's not a bad looking bracket

you might also consider getting a piece of 2"x4" rectangle or 4"x4" square tube, 8"-12" long (whatever you need)
use that to bolt to the frame, cutting the mounting flanges off of your bracket,
the bigger the square tube, the shorter the bracket, the less it will flex
welding the bracket to the new square tubing, and add a little gusset or two
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:07 AM
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This co has 90 deg mounted MC under the dash. I've seen these at Back to the 50's but have not installed them.

http://www.kugelkomponents.com/

Hawk pads from Speedway might help too. regardless of the ads there are compromises with pads. I'm going to got with the hawk pads over the winter just to improve the already good brakes I have. Also a double 7 in booster.
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matts37chev
really that's not a bad looking bracket

you might also consider getting a piece of 2"x4" rectangle or 4"x4" square tube, 8"-12" long (whatever you need)
use that to bolt to the frame, cutting the mounting flanges off of your bracket,
the bigger the square tube, the shorter the bracket, the less it will flex
welding the bracket to the new square tubing, and add a little gusset or two
I like the square tube idea , thanks.
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bentwings
This co has 90 deg mounted MC under the dash. I've seen these at Back to the 50's but have not installed them.

http://www.kugelkomponents.com/

Hawk pads from Speedway might help too. regardless of the ads there are compromises with pads. I'm going to got with the hawk pads over the winter just to improve the already good brakes I have. Also a double 7 in booster.
I came across that last nite . I had seen an application on another site ,thatss why I asked. Now Kugle makes them.
It's like everything else I've done to this car. I kobble something together ,then I see it manufactured later on.
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:49 AM
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fix the soft spongy pedal first and see how you like it. you have a leak if you have to bleed the brakes every 1000 miles.

i used a hydroboost mounted under the floor in stock location on my 58 truk.



this is early on in my truk build. i have a remote fill on it now.
the hydroboost is off an 03 mustang
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Old 01-01-2012, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ogre
fix the soft spongy pedal first and see how you like it. you have a leak if you have to bleed the brakes every 1000 miles.

i used a hydroboost mounted under the floor in stock location on my 58 truk.



this is early on in my truk build. i have a remote fill on it now.
the hydroboost is off an 03 mustang
That is a sweet setup. You have a lot more room to work with . Deciding to put my brake pedal in the nirmal location means I am right up against the tranny. I don't care for left foot braking. I had a lot more room on the other side.
Next build will be better as I have learned a lot.
And been helped a lot by members here !
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matts37chev
they make some pretty small boosters for under the floor
I will search around, see what I can find

also, just some bigger rotors and better calipers would help alot

another often over looked upgrade, is just using very high performance grades of lining on the system you already have (after you fix the leak)
these $55 Disc Italia Titanium Kevlar ( Style: Titanium Kevlar)


The Disc Italia Titanium Kevlar brake pads are designed for today's most demanding drivers. They provide very high friction co-efficient levels & increased braking performance. Disc Italia pads [although not required] are optimized to perform with drilled or slotted rotors. The unique Titanium coated fibers strengthen the pad, giving it increased pad life ensuring you receive a long lasting smooth operating brake pad, and provide the pad with greater resistance to brake fade. The Titanium Kevlar formulation emits extremely low levels of brake dust ensuring that your brake pads run virtually dust free. All this is achieved without the pad being overly aggressive on your rotors. Each pad sets include integrated constrained layered anti-squeal shims, and the backing plates come with a corrosion-resistant black powder-coated finish. Experience the future of brake friction materials, experience Disc Italia


or these $36 XBRAKES CARBON PADS ( Style: Metallic)


Xbrakes premium brake pads are a great replacement pad for the performance minded driver, which is looking for performance and value at a great price. The Xbrakes Carbon composite pads provide firm consistent pedal feel during braking. Xbrakes premium brake pads provide exceptionally low dust levels, and provide the driver with excellent, initial brake bite ensuring quick consistent stopping. Each pad set includes a corrosion-resistant powder-coated finish.

The 2nd is a little more agressive then stock and the 1st really for someone who mite be pushin it. Maybe that is the 1 for me with a little more bite.
Thoughts ?
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Old 01-01-2012, 11:47 PM
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I am not familar with those
I would call a couple brake co. on tues and talk to there tech guys

I'm guessing you dont put a ton of miles on this car
so you could use a pretty aggressive pad and not care how quickly it wears you drums and rotors

here is one http://www.ssbrakes.com/Mustang?gcli...FasaQgodhmhtmA

here is another
http://www.ebcbrakes.com/automotive/index.shtml
my computer is being slow so i give up
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