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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2010, 11:58 PM
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That GM lifter you have with the seperate hard foot on the bottom of it is a very desirable piece as far as that end of the lifter is concerned, they just put a clip in it that won't withstand valve float or running the lifter plunger preload too close to the top of its travel.

Practically every SBC since the beginning with hydro lifters has used this lifter style with the wire clip and failure isn't a big problem. The clip failure you have has been known in performance circles for many years and is just from the two reasons I gave before. If preload is right and valve float is avoided they will last forever practically. This is one of the preferred hydraulic lifters in some very good circle track engine shops and they run stuff pretty hard, if that tells you anything about the quality of this lifter.

Run with the correct preload they are fine and I would do exactly as Cobalt suggested above - fix them back to stock or find a better clip for them, either way, but keep them. They are a really good part.

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Old 05-01-2010, 12:09 AM
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OK..

Then that's what I'll do.

I'll number them so I know where they go. Find wire clips or better if available. Set then 1/4 no lash tight.
Replace the damaged one as it looks like the cup is a little mangled. Do the new cam break in with that one..oR

See if I can rebuild that lifter and set correctly..and keep rev reasonable..

I really can't say i have banged on this motor much..I do use it more like a road racer on our open roads...as that is what it was when I bought it 37 years ago.

I was a solid lifter/4spd type always..more comfortable setting solids than Hydraulics..
Even as a Jag tech with OHC..I feel comfortable with the precise setting. The "1/4 turn past zero lash" just seems odd to me..but I'll learn. I understand about what pre load is..just "feels" odd to me..
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Old 05-01-2010, 12:13 AM
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I've got to say I just love that body style Jag as a hotrod like you have. Beautiful styling and quite sharp looking when you get rid of the overabundance of chrome (IMO) that was common to the Fifties era cars. Would live to see more pic's of it.

One of those "someday" projects I'd like to do if I could find a reasonable priced body would be to do one with flared fenders and 8-9-10" wide low profile rubber on all four wheels. All I need is the good body, don't care a whit about the rest, I'll build it.

Your avatar pick is a lot of the look I like, just needs the road race flare treatment for me.

Last edited by ericnova72; 05-01-2010 at 12:18 AM.
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Old 05-01-2010, 12:28 AM
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Eric

Mine was a C/M racer converted in 1957 to SBC. It raced until 1970. It was given to the anus of the universe who hated the car. I helped him leave "this POS **** hole" Tucson in 1973.
It was gutted interior..roll bar..aluminum bucket and very tired GMC 6..
It last raced with a 283..(301)..2x4bbls..

I brought it back to what it was in 1974..but with a 327..solid cam two fours..Warner T-10. It was white..



When I got it in 1973

Last edited by Docc; 05-02-2010 at 01:46 PM.
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Old 05-01-2010, 12:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Docc
OK..

Then that's what I'll do.

I'll number them so I know where they go. Find wire clips or better if available. Set then 1/4 no lash tight.
Replace the damaged one as it looks like the cup is a little mangled. Do the new cam break in with that one..oR See if I can rebuild that lifter and set correctly..and keep rev reasonable..
Reusing the body, at least, of the lifter w/the damaged cup will be the preferred way to go. Even if it means buying a replacement for that lifter and cannibalizing it for the cup.

Keep the plunger w/the individual lifters, they're carefully size-selected to have the correct tolerances when they're assembled. The cups, flapper valve, check balls, etc. are all "standard" and can be exchanged freely- it's just the plunger to lifter body that need be maintained together, just like the lifter itself to the lobe, except not as critical. The worst thing would be a 'tight' fit that- when up to operating temp- might stick and cause a tap, or a 'loose' fit that would bleed down excessively at idle, like a Rhodes lifter.
Quote:
The "1/4 turn past zero lash" just seems odd to me..but I'll learn. I understand about what pre load is..just "feels" odd to me..
Actually, the recommended setting can vary between manufacturers as well as between the different types of hydraulic lifters. 1/4 turn below zero lash is a setting that will satisfy most if not all requirements w/o going too far and having them "pump up" excessively at higher RPM.

Sometimes, guys will zero lash hydraulics and leave it there. I prefer some preload, for obvious reasons- but for a correctly maintained engine and w/the internal c-clips, zero lashing is acceptable to most, more often in race settings as opposed to "weekend" rides.

I would do this- see what the recommendation is for the lifters you're now using AFA preload. If they call for something other than 1/4 turn, you can always try it that way, and see how it performs. If you feel the engine laying down at upper RPM, you might suspect the valve springs or that the lifters are pumping up.

Should be a FUN ride!
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Old 05-01-2010, 12:32 AM
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First time out after this build..

Last edited by Docc; 05-02-2010 at 01:31 AM. Reason: off point..
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Old 05-01-2010, 12:52 AM
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I am not much of an engine detailer..obviously..


Last edited by Docc; 05-02-2010 at 01:27 AM.
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Old 05-01-2010, 09:53 AM
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Looks okay to me, but if your still using the power leech flex fan I`d go to a electric with a fan kit. To each his own, flex fans not only are a safety issue, but they cost power and make a heck of a lot of racket.
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Old 05-01-2010, 12:01 PM
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The radiator is a Griffin with electric fan. For summer here in AZ I add the flex to get some air flow in the compartment and force air out.

I was getting 60* higher under hood temps..mostly around the carb without the flex.
I tried without..but 4 months with flex in 110*+ is really the only thing that has kept fuel perc and some vapor issues away.

The electric fan cools well but doesn't introduce much air into the compartment...which is very small..with carb just under hood where there seems to be no air flow without flex.
I have been doing it this way since 1983..but I have seen pictures and reports of the fan coming apart.

I check mine often..but use it only 3 or 4 months a year.
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Old 05-01-2010, 08:48 PM
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Looks like at least four lifters are missing clips..pulling all this week..

Thanks for all the help guys..
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Old 05-02-2010, 02:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Docc
Looks like at least four lifters are missing clips..pulling all this week..

Thanks for all the help guys..
The internal C-clip style clips should be fine to use as replacements for the wire clips- provided that the slot they fit into is a square sided slot, and not a rounded slot.

The clips should be available to you locally- I'd try places like a bearing supply house, or a place that sells just automotive and heavy equipment hardware (nuts, bolts, studs, etc.). The size is a 'standard' one and should be easily matched up correctly by taking a lifter body w/you to fit the clip to.

The ones I have are about 3/4" OD x 1/32" thick. Get extras in case one goes flying.

You will notice there's a 'sharp' side and a 'rounded' side to the clips. Install them w/the 'sharp' side UP, so they will less likely to pop out of position.

AFA replacements for the wire clips, I'd try the same places mentioned above. I'd also take along a good one to use for comparison.

Good luck.
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Old 05-02-2010, 11:07 AM
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I'll look around Monday. Race shop here might have info...

Maybe McMaster-Carr
http://www.mcmaster.com/#retaining-rings/=6wzk29


System of Measurement Inch
Type Internal
Style Snap
For Bore Diameter 11/16"
Fits Groove Diameter 0.732"
Fits Groove Width 0.039"
Outside Diameter 0.763"
Thickness 0.035"
Material Material/Finish Comparison Chart
Material Type
Stainless Steel
Steel

Finish
Plain
Black Phosphate
Zinc and Yellow Chromate

Would like to keep the current lifters.

I'll mic my lifter for bore diameter..grove width.

Last edited by Docc; 05-02-2010 at 11:22 AM.
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Old 05-02-2010, 12:24 PM
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Maybe your lifters are different than mine, but I ordered the 11/16 internal retaining rings(pn 91580A175) from McMaster-Carr and found that they were too big to get into the lifter with snap ring pliers. I didn't try to install them by "spiraling" them in because I was afraid I couldn't get them out. I thought about grinding them a little where they butt together, but I still don't believe they would fit. I ordered 5/8 rings and found that they were just a hair too small as I could spin them around in the bores easily and was concerned that they would make a lot of noise, or just pop out under operation.
They did seem to be the right thickness. I thought about trying to expand them a little, but thought better of it with some input from this site and my own intuition.
If you find some that are 21/32(.34375") or metric about the same size,
please post where you got them so I can get some too!
Good Luck!!!
ssmonty
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2010, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmonty
Maybe your lifters are different than mine, but I ordered the 11/16 internal retaining rings(pn 91580A175) from McMaster-Carr and found that they were too big to get into the lifter with snap ring pliers. I didn't try to install them by "spiraling" them in because I was afraid I couldn't get them out. I thought about grinding them a little where they butt together, but I still don't believe they would fit. I ordered 5/8 rings and found that they were just a hair too small as I could spin them around in the bores easily and was concerned that they would make a lot of noise, or just pop out under operation.
They did seem to be the right thickness. I thought about trying to expand them a little, but thought better of it with some input from this site and my own intuition.
If you find some that are 21/32(.34375") or metric about the same size,
please post where you got them so I can get some too!
Good Luck!!!
ssmonty
21/32" is .65625".

17mm would be close at .6692"
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2010, 01:03 PM
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Did some checking, Mc Master-Carr has a ring fits into a 16.8mm(661") diameter groove and can be fitted down through a 16mm(629") bore opening. Only problem is it needs a .043" groove width, the ring actual thickness is .039" for this one.

Part #98394A431

Maybe the groove in the lifter will take this , maybe spend some time with a block and fine sandpaper on a flat surface will help, maybe skim them all on a surface grinder if they won't go now??

I have never looked for these rings for lifters, I was worried that they might be made to a lifter manufacturer's specification.

You may have to hunt down some factory clips to replace what you have back to stock, and just get the lifter preload right and avoid valve float, maybe a new valvespring set is a wise move too.
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