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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2010, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericnova72
I have never looked for these rings for lifters, I was worried that they might be made to a lifter manufacturer's specification.

You may have to hunt down some factory clips to replace what you have back to stock, and just get the lifter preload right and avoid valve float, maybe a new valvespring set is a wise move too.

Yep..I don't think I want to grind these..or not know if they are same rockwell..or other specs..

Factory or new..

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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2010, 02:40 PM
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Sorry!!!
I hit 11 divided by 32 on the calculator instead of 21 divided by 32.
My bad!
I'm gonna order the metric rings and check it out. I still believe they would be allot stronger than the wire if they fit.
Thanks allot Eric!
ssmonty
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2010, 04:02 PM
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Pulling lifters.. 8 have no clips..and were simply held in place by pushrod pressure. As I remove them...when push rod no longer presses on cup..lifter just popped apart.
I have broken wire clips in valley..next checking pan. Going to flush motor with a lot of cheap light oil..

I think that the clips are too large to have passed through filter..so cutting it apart to look. May need to drop pan and clean it out.

Never had any lifter noise..no tapping..motor always strong..

The one with the broken rocker..may have actually saved me..
Had this happened on several at the same time..could have been much worse..or over time cause more damage.

Trying to look on the bright (naive?) side..

Ordering parts this week.

Last edited by Docc; 05-02-2010 at 05:48 PM.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2010, 06:37 PM
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Very likely some may have been that way for a while, the pushrod will keep them together until the load is taken off of them, like when your rocker exploded. Any chance of you got into valve float at some other time in the past??, clips may have been broken for a while.

I would suggest a fresh, better set of valvesprings as valve float is the most common source of broken wire clips. Competition Products has a real nice low cost street/strip/claimer circle track spring that requires no special parts and no machining, I've used it alot and it works good.
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Old 05-02-2010, 10:53 PM
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Exactly what I am guessing.
But like I said..I busted up my back and neck just after I put the heads on the block on stand.
I lost my right arm for 4 months..and these folks helped me at a very bad time..so I have no complaints.

From looking at 25 pages of parts receipts for engine..suspension..cooling...I see small bolts..gaskets..oil filters along with the bigger stuff.

I do NOT SEE rockers or PUSHRODS. I think since I wasn't around..and I was the Parts buyer..I guess my old junk motor pushrods and lifters were used.
I looked at some them a little today..all with very small bends.
The rockers and Pushrods just don't look like 9,000 miles.

Too much spring bowing rods a small amount to cause them to jump around in cup..knocking wire clip out..with zero lash. NO TAPPET noise ever ?

Weird..

Maybe zero lash..no preload..on the exact lifter that doesn't like that..?

I rarely ever get near 5,000 with the motor..as on the street their is little to gain with my combination.

Heads were built by a well respected circle track shop..nothing crazy.


I think old parts...some revs for sure..

I will check springs..

Maybe enough slop to shudder pushrods..but still not make noise..??

Last edited by Docc; 05-02-2010 at 11:03 PM.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2010, 11:07 PM
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Well..there you go..

I looked through pictures of when my back/neck was messed up

Looks like the rockers are off my old junker, This motor was what was swapped for my stolen motor. A junk yard low power small block.

I'm guessing the rockers and pushrods went into my new much stronger motor..

Last edited by Docc; 05-03-2010 at 12:02 AM.
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Old 05-02-2010, 11:31 PM
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If the lifters were set at a light preload position, the slight bowing that the pushrods show could be enough to have let the plungers contact the clips, so if you say you haven't been into valve float, that could be the cause of the problems. It just took a broken rocker to let one loose and show its face. The clips can get pounded out but as long as the pushrod is there to keep the guts in the lifter, you don't know it until you find it by accident or something breaks and reveals it.

With Circle track shop stuff in my area it is common to shallow set the lifter preload, it prevents lifter pump up at higher rpm holding the valve off the seat causing a miss or loss of power. All is fine with the lifters as long as nothing changes or goes wrong and the clips get battered.

I think you have made a fair conclusion. Get a hardened pushrod so it can't happen again. I wouldn't say too much spring, just not a good enough pushrod. Common passenger car stuff isn't very stiff as the valvespring loads are real low in stock form. When Chevy did anything they called Hi Performance(SS or Z28 or Corvette) it got screw-in studs, guideplates, and hardened pushrods.
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Old 05-03-2010, 12:01 AM
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Going Shopping this week..

It's always hard to diagnose a failure without "wishful thinking" swaying judgement..but I feel pretty confident about the cause...and way to correct it..

Hopefully I get some time in the next 10 days to do it..lots happening and the blast furnace heat is on the way down here..
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Old 05-03-2010, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Docc
I'll look around Monday. Race shop here might have info... Maybe McMaster-Carr

System of Measurement Inch
Type Internal
Style Snap
For Bore Diameter 11/16"
Fits Groove Diameter 0.732"
Fits Groove Width 0.039"
Outside Diameter 0.763"
Thickness 0.035"
Material Material/Finish Comparison Chart
Material Type
Stainless Steel
Steel

Finish
Plain
Black Phosphate
Zinc and Yellow Chromate

Would like to keep the current lifters.

I'll mic my lifter for bore diameter..grove width.
Those clips would have to be VERY close, if not ideal. I'm sure you are anyway, but replace ALL of the clips.

Good job catching the 8 broken (or nearly so) lifters. One of those *whew* moments! lol

You had mentioned a cup possibly being dinged. Does it look to need replacing, or will it clean up? Reason I ask, is I could send you a cup if you need one. Just give me the dimensions of yours to be sure they're the same. I have several OEM lifters (used, but good condition) that I kept for modifying into a solids for degreeing cams, etc.

You might consider epoxying a bar magnet to the bottom of the oil pan along w/a magnetic drain plug. The magnetic drain plug really doesn't catch very much- but what it DOES do, is give an indication of the amount of debris that is in the oil.
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Old 05-03-2010, 06:25 AM
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The thought occurred to me that the OEM rocker arms might not have has a long enough slot, but it appears that the cam is mild enough to not need long slot rockers.

Specs for the p/n 24502476 cam:

Hydraulic
320/324 advertised duration
212/220 duration @ 0.050"
.435"/.460" lift w/1.5:1 rocker ratio
112.5 LSA
Used in the 350 SBC 300HP/330HP crate engines.

The spring pressure requirements are modest, as well. Competition Products (and many others) carry the stock OD "LT-1/Z-28" springs that would do nicely.

Spring Specs:

120# @ 1.700"
300# @ 1.250"
Coil bind @ 1.160"

Cost about $30.00 and would use the same retainers that you now have. Obviously, there are better quality springs available that are made of "cleaner" material and have good heat treat, etc, for a bit more cash.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 05-31-2010, 01:54 PM
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I like when these type threads have a resolution..never like when there is no wrap up post.

Cobalt and eric..

Well it took awhile. My wife had to be rushed to hospital turned out to be a TIA (mini stroke). She is a runner..5-10 miles a week..in gym 4-5 days a week..we both try top keep fit..but stress can kill us all.
She is doing great after 5 days an a thousand tests..back in gym.
My son had an accident..so I needed to work on his Ranger..it's now at a friends shop getting an axle..then we start with some body work..now about 100 degrees her..so..
That's the excusing out of the way..

I just did my cam break in..20 minutes of 1,500-2,000 varying..

1.6 rockers..Howards 91112 Max Effort..chrome moly pushrods. Edelbrock Air Gap (not RPM).

Set my valves last night..set distributor..Fired it this morning..did my cam break in.
I checked with the shop that built my 186 heads..and yes they used the Z28 spec springs you mentioned. They agreed that the rockers and pushrods probably were the weak link.

I haven't set distributor yet..just set by ear to get cam break in. Great oil pressure..sounds very strong.
I have a slight idle miss (I can hear in even bank exhaust)..but even a little throttle and the revs build fast and smooth.

Need to set timing..and recheck valves as maybe one is still tight.

I was a Jaguar tech early on..and all my SBC have been solid lifter..so I am not a Hydraulic lifter pro..just seems sloppy to set a zero lash and 1/4 or 1/2 turn..not precise like solids or OHC..but I know the slop is taken up by the hydraulics..

So..
I think idle will be rougher with the 1.6 rockers. I have a 65lb pull magnet on pan by drain hole..too strong ?
I ran 10 quarts of oil through with no metal. I cut K&N filter apart..nothing unusual..
I used copious amount of assembly lube on lifters and rods..and rocker cups.

I had 50-60lbs oil pressure at 1500..

Letting it cool a little..need to set timing..but will check valves first. Then set carb..and take a test ride.

Been a long time..and it's 100* now..so evening rides are going to be great.

Thanks all for advice and help. Just wanted to do a wrap up.

Hopefully done...

Last edited by Docc; 05-31-2010 at 02:24 PM.
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