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Old 12-18-2005, 10:54 PM
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bucket T single tortion

I am finishing a 23 bucket t that started its being in 1965 but has never been finished although it has had 3 owners. I am the 4th to own the project and am close to finishing but would like to use the suicide style front suspension the car has now but several pieces are still missing and perhaps not quite right. I have not found much information on a strait axle single torsion bar front suspension anyplace on the internet and few people I have spoken with have any input on the subject and the ones that do offer no help. I can email pictures to anyone willing to help me find some answers. thanks for looking at my topic. any help will be much appreciated
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Old 12-18-2005, 11:18 PM
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As one of the Moderators here,
I would like to
WELCOME YOU HERE......

I do not have any useful answers for you but maybe some of our other members will be of assistance....

DEUCE.....
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Old 12-18-2005, 11:39 PM
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thanks

thanks for the warm welcome. I think this may be a neat site to mingle with fellow rodders and car persons
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Old 12-18-2005, 11:58 PM
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Neat looking "T" by the way.........
Lots of engine, Lots of tire....not much weight = LOTS of FUN....
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Old 12-19-2005, 01:13 AM
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Check out some old sprint cars, there were many 'bar' cars in the transition between transverse leaf and 4 coil over. After all, a sprint car is only a racing evolution of a track T.
Who knows, Iowa may have a few more dirt cars than T buckets! Good luck, hope it's not too cold over there.

Last edited by IanRiordan; 12-19-2005 at 01:16 AM. Reason: forgot the word 'over' - as in coil over
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Old 12-19-2005, 09:11 AM
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I built a single torsion bar front suspension 'T' roadster pickup in the mid sixties. See photo below. Looking at your photos, you have a similar suspension except on yours the outer tube that houses the single torsion bar is attached to the frame rails with tubular extension to the frame rails. On mine I used that outer tube as the front crossmember. You are also missing the outer section of the friction shocks. Your torsion bar appears to be a multi leaf setup. This is the same as I used and comes from half of a Volkswagen front suspension (including the VW outer tube and the center holding block). The width is narrowed to suit and ends are added to facilitate the holding of custom fabricated (home made) friction shocks. I originally tried using teflon for the friction shocks but it would "flake" apart from the friction. What works best is the tried and true "chrome tanned cowhide" that is about 3/16" thick.

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Old 12-19-2005, 04:47 PM
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Speedway motors in the race catalog carries the pieces for torsion bar suspension for Eagle chassis and similar..they may have the parts you need and those supensions do work well..

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Old 12-19-2005, 10:12 PM
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wow thanks so much for the information

I have lots of questions but for the time being will settle for anything on this torsion bar suspension.
Some of my other questions for this forum are with my drag link. It is aluminum now and I wonder if it is strong enough or should I change out to a chrome steel or even stainless steel?
My steering column is Vertical. What kind of trouble can I expect with this?
Brake master cylinder? I have ten pounds of s--t in a five pound bag under my feet and want a dual reservoir master cylinder and no room to reverse one under the floor and forward under the floor no better.I will be running4 corner discs. A swing pedal is what I am looking at but how do you beef up the firewall enough for heavy breaking and still have room for your feet and not crack your body over time from vibration? I think I know this one but Ideas are sure welcome!
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Old 12-20-2005, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nota57
Some of my other questions for this forum are with my drag link. It is aluminum now and I wonder if it is strong enough or should I change out to a chrome steel or even stainless steel?
My steering column is Vertical. What kind of trouble can I expect with this?
Brake master cylinder? I have ten pounds of s--t in a five pound bag under my feet and want a dual reservoir master cylinder and no room to reverse one under the floor and forward under the floor no better.I will be running4 corner discs. A swing pedal is what I am looking at but how do you beef up the firewall enough for heavy breaking and still have room for your feet and not crack your body over time from vibration? I think I know this one but Ideas are sure welcome!
Replace the aluminum drag link with thick walled mild steel or thinner walled chrome moly.

The vertical steering column should not be a problem if it is securely mounted to the frame. Mounting the column vertical was very popular with the 'T' roadsters.

Under the floor mounted master cylinder can be done and is what I would suggest. It will be a tight fit. Since your exhaust are outboard of the body and frame there should be enough room.Bracket and pedals will probably have to be fabricated or at a minimum you will have to modify a set of the aftermarket ones that are currently available. You can mount the master cylinder much farther back and use a longer brake pushrod to activate it. This is what I have done on my current Model 'A' project with dual diaphragm power brakes for exhaust clearance between the frame and auto trans. The dual master you mention will work fine once you install front brakes.

Mounting swing pedals can also be done with a stout tube assembly welded to the frame and routed up under the dash behind the firewall for mounting. Thru the firewall master cylinder probably would not clear the valve covers. An under the dash sideways mounted master cylinder would work but be very difficult to check the fluid level.


Last edited by Frisco; 12-20-2005 at 08:43 AM.
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Old 12-20-2005, 12:14 PM
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Frisco, I find the torsion bar setup interesting. If I'm reading this right, only one of the two tubes in a VW bug suspension has torsion bars anchored in the center, the other bar doesn't have a torsion bar? So you cut the tube with the bars off the assembly, then use a short arm that attaches at a swivel point to the axle. A hair pin or rod is added to keep the axle vertical. Friction shocks are usually used, but tubulars could be mounted. Frictions will look better, of course -- if using tubulars may as well go with coil overs.
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Old 12-20-2005, 02:17 PM
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torsion bar

Interesting subject I am just starting to build a T and have been looking at using a torsion bar on the front but because of the length it will not be man enough to support the weight and give some sort of handling I would suggest either doubling it up or using the leaf spring set up as suspension backing it up with a single torsion bar as this (if set up right ) could act as a sway bar
Dave
YOUR "T" LOOKS THE DOGS (UK SLANG V/GOOD)
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Old 12-21-2005, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farna
Frisco, I find the torsion bar setup interesting. If I'm reading this right, only one of the two tubes in a VW bug suspension has torsion bars anchored in the center, the other bar doesn't have a torsion bar? So you cut the tube with the bars off the assembly, then use a short arm that attaches at a swivel point to the axle. A hair pin or rod is added to keep the axle vertical. Friction shocks are usually used, but tubulars could be mounted. Frictions will look better, of course -- if using tubulars may as well go with coil overs.
The stock VW front end actually has two tubes and both have multi-leaf (torsion) bars in them. Both are anchored in the center of the tubes. The stock VW front end has the torsion bars connected to each other at the ends with "trailing arm/spindles".

Using only one of the tubes and the corresponding torsion bar is what is incorporated with the suspension pictured. The ends are modified to enable manufacturing friction shocks and the new "arms". Calculating where and at what angle the arms have to be so that when the engine and all the other "suspended" parts are mounted the front end will have the arms almost parallel to the ground is the tricky part.

Hairpins with adjustable clevis on the forward ends or four-bar setup is used to hold the axle in alignment and be able to be adjusted. One consideration that is important is that the length of the suspension arms (short) will be traveling in a much shorter arc than the arc of the hairpins (longer). This can be allowed for by slotting the mounting hole in the suspension arms. The overall travel up and down of this suspension is also limited for the same reason.

It is a very clean and workable suspension but not designed for "road race" type driving. I had seen this style suspension on AA/Fuel dragsters and then on Kent Fuller's Porche engined 'T' roadster pickup (original Volk's Rod). After selling the first 'T' roadster pickup that I built (very modified Model 'A' frame and suspension) I wanted to build a custom framed 'T' roadster pickup with the single torsion bar front suspension and coil spring rear.

Pictures of both are in my album.
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