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Old 03-05-2013, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by TimoFinn View Post
I was not going to ask, and not trying to be smart ***, but will ask anyway, did you comment only to get to argue with fbird or is this going to help op in his build?

Why is it time after time that if somebody want`s to use factory heads he must be stupid because they can`t work or chinesium is better?

After all there is more than one way to skin a cat, right?
Fair question.I am wanting to warn the O/P who is on a tight budget about a failed build.
I don't maintain all OEM head's use is a stupid move.The Vortec's for what they are not too bad for a 355.
One constant is it cost money to play with cars and still that hasn't changed.The way things have changed is because of the impression of everything being a deal,guys are always expecting something for next to nothing.
And one thing that next to never is considered is to develop a talent to knowing the parts well enough so buy at auction second hand good condition or reconditioned parts.A example of that is to buy $2,500 set of AFR heads at a 1/3 of retail and before bidding know pretty much what it will cost to rebuild them is or what exactly retail is giving a model number.So your getting the set for lets say $500.That kind of thing is less than the costs of OEM,is what most would never dream of owning,could use and likely sell when done with them for more than they paid for them.A win-win way of skinning the cat.Another way of approach for a DIY that turned our racing program into a very successful program and business for many,many yrs.Those are the true deals that if your smart you take a advantage of. Hell we used to buy cosmetic blems in heads that if it wasn't for appearance,they where brand new never used and not a damm thing wrong with them.

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Old 03-05-2013, 06:02 PM
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A hack at best.Been at this longer and at a more professional level.Assume nothing in knowing anyone from a forum.Big mistake in doing so.Built a racing operation from nothing to two aftermarket BBC's which amounts to a mortgage of a house.And key to that is BUILT!!!!.
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Old 03-05-2013, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by 1Gary View Post
Fair question.I am wanting to warn the O/P who is on a tight budget about a failed build.
I don't maintain all OEM head's use is a stupid move.The Vortec's for what they are not too bad for a 355.
One constant is it cost money to play with cars and still that hasn't changed.The way things have changed is because of the impression of everything being a deal,guys are always expecting something for next to nothing.
And one thing that next to never is considered is to develop a talent to knowing the parts well enough so buy at auction second hand good condition or reconditioned parts.A example of that is to buy $2,500 set of AFR heads at a 1/3 of retail and before bidding know pretty much what it will cost to rebuild them is or what exactly retail is giving a model number.So your getting the set for lets say $500.That kind of thing is less than the costs of OEM,is what most would never dream of owning,could use and likely sell when done with them for more than they paid for them.A win-win way of skinning the cat.Another way of approach for a DIY that turned our racing program into a very successful program and business for many,many yrs.Those are the true deals that if your smart you take a advantage of. Hell we used to buy cosmetic blems in heads that if it wasn't for appearance,they where brand new never used and not a damm thing wrong with them.
Did you really just find a way to yet again plug AFR heads in a budget build conversation? Gary, I get you know your sht, and I'm sure your stuff is fast and will live a million miles, I even concede that you have run a successful business or race team.....but again, this isn't that....not by a long shot, this is just another kid trying to get into something quick and fun to drive.....and not wait until he can afford expensive machining, expensive rotating assemblies, or really expensive heads.....he just wants to go as fast as he can now, and have fun doing it. Going from a stock anything S10 to this 305 headed combo is going to be a riot, its enough cam to go fast, sound awesome, and make good power, would it make more with afr heads, for sure.....hell I just bought shiny alum heads (not chinesiam) for mine when I had a set of 416's on the bench.....but he said budget....in big bold letters....so from experience, setup right, and with good gas, its going to be real strong, real reliable, and far more fun then whatever he has in it now.....and IF it breaks.....its not going to take out a fancy crank, or 2000$ AFR heads......that's all im getting at....you were young once, and wanted to go fast.....remember?
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:36 PM
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Did you really just find a way to yet again plug AFR heads in a budget build conversation? Gary, I get you know your sht, and I'm sure your stuff is fast and will live a million miles, I even concede that you have run a successful business or race team.....but again, this isn't that....not by a long shot, this is just another kid trying to get into something quick and fun to drive.....and not wait until he can afford expensive machining, expensive rotating assemblies, or really expensive heads.....he just wants to go as fast as he can now, and have fun doing it. Going from a stock anything S10 to this 305 headed combo is going to be a riot, its enough cam to go fast, sound awesome, and make good power, would it make more with afr heads, for sure.....hell I just bought shiny alum heads (not chinesiam) for mine when I had a set of 416's on the bench.....but he said budget....in big bold letters....so from experience, setup right, and with good gas, its going to be real strong, real reliable, and far more fun then whatever he has in it now.....and IF it breaks.....its not going to take out a fancy crank, or 2000$ AFR heads......that's all im getting at....you were young once, and wanted to go fast.....remember?
I do remember being that young.Wanting to go fast so bad it hurt.What I learned is what I am passing on to him.OMG if I had only learned earlier that I don't have to base my decisions off retail pricing where we would have ended up to this point.Most large racing organizations figured a way to create a income.But in his case I am saying he could have nearly all of it at the same pricing as what he feels he can afford by doing what I am suggesting.And I am indirectly passing that on to all of you guys too.For us anyways,I think it has been the last 3 or 4 yrs we do not accept any new customers because we are overwhelmed with the customer base we have.A guy that helps us built three different versions of SBC's for his 69 Chevy from the horse trading he has done and two of them cost him 0.All three are pretty stout.One of them is a 413.Two have aftermarket heads with aluminum heads the good factory CNC ported.I'm NOT talking about Craigslist or swap meets.There your paying middlemen like us.Or on Ebay.Hell I see stuff on there I see vendors buys from the last auction or one two auctions before like on Racing Junk.Source auctions is where to buy and because we have for a very long time been involved in that and are apart of a network,I know across the U.S. and Canada there are very good auctions held.One that are concerned about their rep's to keep people like us happy with what is being offered for sale screening the parts so it doesn't become a junkyard of pallets.We travel with a shoulder bag to measure,mag,test,what we bid on by getting there early to review what is in the impound area.Decide right then and there what we are going to bid on and how much writing down the lot numbers.Guys that bid from their seats never looking closely before hand deserve what they bought.Big boy pants time then.It is from them dumb basses you hear it all junk parts.We on one of the car's engine bought a circle track roller cam that we had a guy spec for us on his cam doctor.It was all we wanted for a designed combo we had in mind.Guys told us we could never win with a circle track cam.That car won a Can-Am national.Killer 60'/330' times.It is just one example of the numerous various engines we have offered over the yrs for resale.

Guys say but money is tight.We tell them yes it is.Then there are guys who still want to go fast and find they can do so on the same budget they have,but a much better scale of parts.Yepper,as money gets tighter the business gets even better.It is that lead us to over the last 5 yrs two brand new aftermarket Alky/nitrous BBC.A 565 and a 632.And now a third combo for this season which has more hp,but I am not ready to reveal yet.

If this O/P as a young man follows what I am suggesting,when they cover me up with dirt,I'll be able to take one last look and say "That A Boy" from what he did over the yrs!!!.
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Old 03-05-2013, 10:49 PM
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And for the O/P and others.By consistently attending these auction events,you get known as a very good buyer.You make contacts with sellers and manufactures that approach you to tell what they have there and their expectations for what they want for it.
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Old 03-06-2013, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by 1Gary View Post
I do remember being that young.Wanting to go fast so bad it hurt.What I learned is what I am passing on to him.OMG if I had only learned earlier that I don't have to base my decisions off retail pricing where we would have ended up to this point.Most large racing organizations figured a way to create a income.But in his case I am saying he could have nearly all of it at the same pricing as what he feels he can afford by doing what I am suggesting.And I am indirectly passing that on to all of you guys too.For us anyways,I think it has been the last 3 or 4 yrs we do not accept any new customers because we are overwhelmed with the customer base we have.A guy that helps us built three different versions of SBC's for his 69 Chevy from the horse trading he has done and two of them cost him 0.All three are pretty stout.One of them is a 413.Two have aftermarket heads with aluminum heads the good factory CNC ported.I'm NOT talking about Craigslist or swap meets.There your paying middlemen like us.Or on Ebay.Hell I see stuff on there I see vendors buys from the last auction or one two auctions before like on Racing Junk.Source auctions is where to buy and because we have for a very long time been involved in that and are apart of a network,I know across the U.S. and Canada there are very good auctions held.One that are concerned about their rep's to keep people like us happy with what is being offered for sale screening the parts so it doesn't become a junkyard of pallets.We travel with a shoulder bag to measure,mag,test,what we bid on by getting there early to review what is in the impound area.Decide right then and there what we are going to bid on and how much writing down the lot numbers.Guys that bid from their seats never looking closely before hand deserve what they bought.Big boy pants time then.It is from them dumb basses you hear it all junk parts.We on one of the car's engine bought a circle track roller cam that we had a guy spec for us on his cam doctor.It was all we wanted for a designed combo we had in mind.Guys told us we could never win with a circle track cam.That car won a Can-Am national.Killer 60'/330' times.It is just one example of the numerous various engines we have offered over the yrs for resale.

Guys say but money is tight.We tell them yes it is.Then there are guys who still want to go fast and find they can do so on the same budget they have,but a much better scale of parts.Yepper,as money gets tighter the business gets even better.It is that lead us to over the last 5 yrs two brand new aftermarket Alky/nitrous BBC.A 565 and a 632.And now a third combo for this season which has more hp,but I am not ready to reveal yet.

If this O/P as a young man follows what I am suggesting,when they cover me up with dirt,I'll be able to take one last look and say "That A Boy" from what he did over the yrs!!!.
While all that is Good information, your missing my point. Assuming the OP is new to this (and hell I may be way off base) henisnt going to find an auction, and go pick up that hidden jewel. Its just not going to happen, its daunting walking in to a place such as that, or an event such as that with a meagre pocketbook and trying to make sure he doesn't by used up junk, or hell even a great deal but one that won't work for his project. Going out on a limb here but if he is like me, and working out of a ****ty little garage, with a little budget, who's buddies aernt racing geeks and who doesn't spend weeks and weeks on forums researching then its not that complicated. He has a bit of money, wants to have his car in the road as soon as possible, and doesn't have deep pockets. He may already have, and can certainly find very quickly a set of heads that somebody like you or even me has disregarded because they can afford "real" heads and he can make them perform to his satisfaction for a very low cost entry. Yea, eventually we all get a better budget, or more time and patience to shop or buy better parts. But starting with this combo, it will get him rolling easily and quickly without the stress involved in spending money he (or she) may not have. That's all I'm saying....there's many ways to go fast in a budget, but sometimes the simplest is the easiest.
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:13 AM
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Wouldn't it be his guiding angel be his cell phone posting questions on here from the auction??. Two days after he is home with the parts it dawns on him,oh that is how it works...................

You learn early on not to let auction fever catch up to you by budgeting what your willing to spend per lot number and some you just let go.And after some real strong winning buys,you can't wait to find another one to attend.

Last edited by 1Gary; 03-06-2013 at 07:22 AM.
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Old 03-07-2013, 01:15 AM
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Enough is enough. I will try to save this thread by splitting out the personal attacks and arguments. I have nothing better to do than edit a bunch of crap at 11 p.m. tonight! Warnings have been issued to the offending members, the next warning will get a suspension.
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