[1Gary]

We had one of those heads shaved that low and cut it open.I got throw out.Sooooooooooo it ant going to happen tomorrow,but I will show to all once again why Not!!!

Surface to say there are reasons why the aftermarket heads have thicker head surfaces.

And it is foolish to think stock OEM castings and the QC that come along with that are that uniform that you can just hack away at all of them without checking them first.

For people like me,I have gone threw doors long ago in the course of DIY to answers to questions like this.I have been apart of hot rodding history as well grow up in it's engineering evolution to current status.So your "attempt" of slander is meaningless..........................

[1Gary]

I almost forgot.From the suggestions I have read from your posts like build a compression level a full point beyond what is recognized as a safe limit and compensate by retarding the ignition timing is akin to a dog chasing it's tail.Add compression and then can't utilize it retarding the ignition timing. Or then locking out timing because a well set up dizzy can't be trusted.Or pump gas is all uniform.Or for that matter that the gas state side is the same as in Canada. Or the well documented fact that from one gas brand to another or for that matter the same brand name gas in the same township is all the same.Or that a person between two forums having just short of 20,000 posts can find any time at all to build anything at all,which is illogical.

Lastly.We have proven time and again you can have Performance And Reliability without trial and error high risk moves that most of what your suggestions involve.

[TimoFinn]

Originally Posted by 1Gary

How about it guys??. Now sonic checks don't work.I do think a second opinion is in order here........

I was not going to ask, and not trying to be smart ***, but will ask anyway, did you comment only to get to argue with fbird or is this going to help op in his build?

Why is it time after time that if somebody want`s to use factory heads he must be stupid because they can`t work or chinesium is better?

After all there is more than one way to skin a cat, right?

[1Gary]

Originally Posted by TimoFinn

I was not going to ask, and not trying to be smart ***, but will ask anyway, did you comment only to get to argue with fbird or is this going to help op in his build?

Why is it time after time that if somebody want`s to use factory heads he must be stupid because they can`t work or chinesium is better?

After all there is more than one way to skin a cat, right?

Fair question.I am wanting to warn the O/P who is on a tight budget about a failed build.
I don't maintain all OEM head's use is a stupid move.The Vortec's for what they are not too bad for a 355.
One constant is it cost money to play with cars and still that hasn't changed.The way things have changed is because of the impression of everything being a deal,guys are always expecting something for next to nothing.
And one thing that next to never is considered is to develop a talent to knowing the parts well enough so buy at auction second hand good condition or reconditioned parts.A example of that is to buy $2,500 set of AFR heads at a 1/3 of retail and before bidding know pretty much what it will cost to rebuild them is or what exactly retail is giving a model number.So your getting the set for lets say $500.That kind of thing is less than the costs of OEM,is what most would never dream of owning,could use and likely sell when done with them for more than they paid for them.A win-win way of skinning the cat.Another way of approach for a DIY that turned our racing program into a very successful program and business for many,many yrs.Those are the true deals that if your smart you take a advantage of. Hell we used to buy cosmetic blems in heads that if it wasn't for appearance,they where brand new never used and not a damm thing wrong with them.

[F-BIRD'88]

None of my methods or build recipes are high risk or trial and error. These are simple combos I have built and run my self. I had one fail. it was 12.65:1cr. I ran it on pump gas by mistake one day. And it broke a ring land. cause it detonated on pump gas. No mystery there.
The 305 heads never failed. I repaired that motor for less than $400. (sleeve and 1 piston, +rings and bearings) It is still running today. (I ran it for 10 years, before one day I mistakenly ran it on pump gas)
in 2 different cars, with various heads on it. including ported 305, vortecs,882's, 492 etc)
In 35 years this was the only time I ever broke a hard part. 1 piston ring land on a 10 year old cast piston.
Thats not a bad record.

Oh I had 2 camshafts wear out on me. After many miles.
I have been doing this for many years, way before the internet ever was.
And I never buy or sell at swap meets. Most of the engine parts there are junk or fubared.

You cut a head open and got all scared. You have never ran a SBC head that was flat milled to see if it will fail.
I have. I have never had one fail from being flat milled even right up to the intake seat (51cc).
I don;t know and don't care how thick the deck was. I had less than $450 invested in it (the pair) anyway. It owed me nothing.

Note: These 305 heads do not lend them selves to angle milling because of the position of the spark plug boss in the chamber. Stick to flat milling on the 305 heads. Or get the Summit rebuild kit with flat top pistons. For $200 it comes with good parts, gaskets and pistons.

a real measured 10.50:1cr is just right for this motor and the comp XE284H-10 cam and 92 octane unleaded.
You want it high enough but not excessive. No it won't run on 87 octane gas.
Yes lock out the distributor. It will want 34-36deg timing.

The gas in the USA close to me is BETTER than ours here. It is 100 octane @ the pump.
Its up to you to put good gas in it. That goes for any car.

gary all you have done is buy and sell cars and parts. Oh... and cut open 1 cylinder head and got all spooked... Get a grip.
As of today I have 9204 posts in the 2 forums I participate in..
Some of that wasted on posts, responding to guys like you trying to tell me or others what we can do and cannot do.

So all your BS is far exaggerated. This simple low buck yet powerfull engine combo is well tested and researched. it will GLH and probably out last the rest of the car.

[F-BIRD'88]

Here is one example where I had to post to get stuff straightened out from guys like Gary posting bs that they have no clue what they are even talking about.

Sonic testing is primarily done to test on cylinder walls.
Why would you sonic test the deck of a SBC cylinder head when all you have to do is look in the water
ports to see the deck thickness of the head in question.?

Why would you even cut one open to see. Just look in the friggn water ports in the decks of the head..

I have never had one fail from shaving it. Or even heard of someone else having a sbc head crack the deck from shaving it. I think your are pretty safe on your $20 junk yard 305 head.

9205 posts and counting....

[1Gary]

A hack at best.Been at this longer and at a more professional level.Assume nothing in knowing anyone from a forum.Big mistake in doing so.Built a racing operation from nothing to two aftermarket BBC's which amounts to a mortgage of a house.And key to that is BUILT!!!!.

[bygddy]

Originally Posted by 1Gary

Fair question.I am wanting to warn the O/P who is on a tight budget about a failed build.
I don't maintain all OEM head's use is a stupid move.The Vortec's for what they are not too bad for a 355.
One constant is it cost money to play with cars and still that hasn't changed.The way things have changed is because of the impression of everything being a deal,guys are always expecting something for next to nothing.
And one thing that next to never is considered is to develop a talent to knowing the parts well enough so buy at auction second hand good condition or reconditioned parts.A example of that is to buy $2,500 set of AFR heads at a 1/3 of retail and before bidding know pretty much what it will cost to rebuild them is or what exactly retail is giving a model number.So your getting the set for lets say $500.That kind of thing is less than the costs of OEM,is what most would never dream of owning,could use and likely sell when done with them for more than they paid for them.A win-win way of skinning the cat.Another way of approach for a DIY that turned our racing program into a very successful program and business for many,many yrs.Those are the true deals that if your smart you take a advantage of. Hell we used to buy cosmetic blems in heads that if it wasn't for appearance,they where brand new never used and not a damm thing wrong with them.

Did you really just find a way to yet again plug AFR heads in a budget build conversation? Gary, I get you know your sht, and I'm sure your stuff is fast and will live a million miles, I even concede that you have run a successful business or race team.....but again, this isn't that....not by a long shot, this is just another kid trying to get into something quick and fun to drive.....and not wait until he can afford expensive machining, expensive rotating assemblies, or really expensive heads.....he just wants to go as fast as he can now, and have fun doing it. Going from a stock anything S10 to this 305 headed combo is going to be a riot, its enough cam to go fast, sound awesome, and make good power, would it make more with afr heads, for sure.....hell I just bought shiny alum heads (not chinesiam) for mine when I had a set of 416's on the bench.....but he said budget....in big bold letters....so from experience, setup right, and with good gas, its going to be real strong, real reliable, and far more fun then whatever he has in it now.....and IF it breaks.....its not going to take out a fancy crank, or 2000$ AFR heads......that's all im getting at....you were young once, and wanted to go fast.....remember?

[1Gary]

Originally Posted by bygddy

Did you really just find a way to yet again plug AFR heads in a budget build conversation? Gary, I get you know your sht, and I'm sure your stuff is fast and will live a million miles, I even concede that you have run a successful business or race team.....but again, this isn't that....not by a long shot, this is just another kid trying to get into something quick and fun to drive.....and not wait until he can afford expensive machining, expensive rotating assemblies, or really expensive heads.....he just wants to go as fast as he can now, and have fun doing it. Going from a stock anything S10 to this 305 headed combo is going to be a riot, its enough cam to go fast, sound awesome, and make good power, would it make more with afr heads, for sure.....hell I just bought shiny alum heads (not chinesiam) for mine when I had a set of 416's on the bench.....but he said budget....in big bold letters....so from experience, setup right, and with good gas, its going to be real strong, real reliable, and far more fun then whatever he has in it now.....and IF it breaks.....its not going to take out a fancy crank, or 2000$ AFR heads......that's all im getting at....you were young once, and wanted to go fast.....remember?

I do remember being that young.Wanting to go fast so bad it hurt.What I learned is what I am passing on to him.OMG if I had only learned earlier that I don't have to base my decisions off retail pricing where we would have ended up to this point.Most large racing organizations figured a way to create a income.But in his case I am saying he could have nearly all of it at the same pricing as what he feels he can afford by doing what I am suggesting.And I am indirectly passing that on to all of you guys too.For us anyways,I think it has been the last 3 or 4 yrs we do not accept any new customers because we are overwhelmed with the customer base we have.A guy that helps us built three different versions of SBC's for his 69 Chevy from the horse trading he has done and two of them cost him 0.All three are pretty stout.One of them is a 413.Two have aftermarket heads with aluminum heads the good factory CNC ported.I'm NOT talking about Craigslist or swap meets.There your paying middlemen like us.Or on Ebay.Hell I see stuff on there I see vendors buys from the last auction or one two auctions before like on Racing Junk.Source auctions is where to buy and because we have for a very long time been involved in that and are apart of a network,I know across the U.S. and Canada there are very good auctions held.One that are concerned about their rep's to keep people like us happy with what is being offered for sale screening the parts so it doesn't become a junkyard of pallets.We travel with a shoulder bag to measure,mag,test,what we bid on by getting there early to review what is in the impound area.Decide right then and there what we are going to bid on and how much writing down the lot numbers.Guys that bid from their seats never looking closely before hand deserve what they bought.Big boy pants time then.It is from them dumb basses you hear it all junk parts.We on one of the car's engine bought a circle track roller cam that we had a guy spec for us on his cam doctor.It was all we wanted for a designed combo we had in mind.Guys told us we could never win with a circle track cam.That car won a Can-Am national.Killer 60'/330' times.It is just one example of the numerous various engines we have offered over the yrs for resale.

Guys say but money is tight.We tell them yes it is.Then there are guys who still want to go fast and find they can do so on the same budget they have,but a much better scale of parts.Yepper,as money gets tighter the business gets even better.It is that lead us to over the last 5 yrs two brand new aftermarket Alky/nitrous BBC.A 565 and a 632.And now a third combo for this season which has more hp,but I am not ready to reveal yet.

If this O/P as a young man follows what I am suggesting,when they cover me up with dirt,I'll be able to take one last look and say "That A Boy" from what he did over the yrs!!!.

[1Gary]

And for the O/P and others.By consistently attending these auction events,you get known as a very good buyer.You make contacts with sellers and manufactures that approach you to tell what they have there and their expectations for what they want for it.

[bygddy]

Originally Posted by 1Gary

I do remember being that young.Wanting to go fast so bad it hurt.What I learned is what I am passing on to him.OMG if I had only learned earlier that I don't have to base my decisions off retail pricing where we would have ended up to this point.Most large racing organizations figured a way to create a income.But in his case I am saying he could have nearly all of it at the same pricing as what he feels he can afford by doing what I am suggesting.And I am indirectly passing that on to all of you guys too.For us anyways,I think it has been the last 3 or 4 yrs we do not accept any new customers because we are overwhelmed with the customer base we have.A guy that helps us built three different versions of SBC's for his 69 Chevy from the horse trading he has done and two of them cost him 0.All three are pretty stout.One of them is a 413.Two have aftermarket heads with aluminum heads the good factory CNC ported.I'm NOT talking about Craigslist or swap meets.There your paying middlemen like us.Or on Ebay.Hell I see stuff on there I see vendors buys from the last auction or one two auctions before like on Racing Junk.Source auctions is where to buy and because we have for a very long time been involved in that and are apart of a network,I know across the U.S. and Canada there are very good auctions held.One that are concerned about their rep's to keep people like us happy with what is being offered for sale screening the parts so it doesn't become a junkyard of pallets.We travel with a shoulder bag to measure,mag,test,what we bid on by getting there early to review what is in the impound area.Decide right then and there what we are going to bid on and how much writing down the lot numbers.Guys that bid from their seats never looking closely before hand deserve what they bought.Big boy pants time then.It is from them dumb basses you hear it all junk parts.We on one of the car's engine bought a circle track roller cam that we had a guy spec for us on his cam doctor.It was all we wanted for a designed combo we had in mind.Guys told us we could never win with a circle track cam.That car won a Can-Am national.Killer 60'/330' times.It is just one example of the numerous various engines we have offered over the yrs for resale.

Guys say but money is tight.We tell them yes it is.Then there are guys who still want to go fast and find they can do so on the same budget they have,but a much better scale of parts.Yepper,as money gets tighter the business gets even better.It is that lead us to over the last 5 yrs two brand new aftermarket Alky/nitrous BBC.A 565 and a 632.And now a third combo for this season which has more hp,but I am not ready to reveal yet.

If this O/P as a young man follows what I am suggesting,when they cover me up with dirt,I'll be able to take one last look and say "That A Boy" from what he did over the yrs!!!.

While all that is Good information, your missing my point. Assuming the OP is new to this (and hell I may be way off base) henisnt going to find an auction, and go pick up that hidden jewel. Its just not going to happen, its daunting walking in to a place such as that, or an event such as that with a meagre pocketbook and trying to make sure he doesn't by used up junk, or hell even a great deal but one that won't work for his project. Going out on a limb here but if he is like me, and working out of a ****ty little garage, with a little budget, who's buddies aernt racing geeks and who doesn't spend weeks and weeks on forums researching then its not that complicated. He has a bit of money, wants to have his car in the road as soon as possible, and doesn't have deep pockets. He may already have, and can certainly find very quickly a set of heads that somebody like you or even me has disregarded because they can afford "real" heads and he can make them perform to his satisfaction for a very low cost entry. Yea, eventually we all get a better budget, or more time and patience to shop or buy better parts. But starting with this combo, it will get him rolling easily and quickly without the stress involved in spending money he (or she) may not have. That's all I'm saying....there's many ways to go fast in a budget, but sometimes the simplest is the easiest.

[1Gary]

Wouldn't it be his guiding angel be his cell phone posting questions on here from the auction??. Two days after he is home with the parts it dawns on him,oh that is how it works...................

You learn early on not to let auction fever catch up to you by budgeting what your willing to spend per lot number and some you just let go.And after some real strong winning buys,you can't wait to find another one to attend.

[F-BIRD'88]

Moderator please lock this thread as the O/P is surely long gone and This Clown Gary1 has yet again ruined
a informative thread. He is primarily here to promote himself and his car/parts buy selling network.
and has no real technical advise to add here or any other forum.

[dinger]

Enough is enough. I will try to save this thread by splitting out the personal attacks and arguments. I have nothing better to do than edit a bunch of crap at 11 p.m. tonight! Warnings have been issued to the offending members, the next warning will get a suspension.